We continue the Talking with Jesus season. Zaccheus had an encounter with Jesus that brought him to his knees and to call Jesus Lord. He didn’t stop there, he sold half of his possessions and started depending on Jesus.
Verses – Luke 19:1-10
Verses – 2 Corinthians 12:9-10
Resource – Bestself Icebreaker Cards
Take a Listen to Other Episodes in this Series.
Josh Hello hello hello hello we’re just 2 normal dudes trying to live this jesus life. My name’s Josh.
Andrew Hey my name’s Andrew and we are this jesus life podcast Josh I just messed that up I said my name’s Andrew ah I didn’t say I’m Andrew.
Josh It’s it’s ah what do you usually say oh I’m Andrew I knew it’s I knew it sounded different but I didn’t know why it sounded different. It’s been. It’s it’s been a very long time.
Andrew Just I just say hey I’m Andrew and we are I totally messed it up man. Yeah yeah, it ah I hope yeah, it’s been a minute but we’re back and we’re back? Yeah yeah.
Josh Ah I I think it’s been almost a month but dude you ah you en camping on ah ah on the beach this this last week. How was that.
Andrew It’s been crazy. Um, yeah I did and okay it was really cool so we went to Assatee Island we took our popup camper there. And and stayed in the national park side and I’ve never been beach camping in my life which it was really cool. Technically we were on the bayside but it’s like a short walk or bike gride or whatever across to the actual beach. Um. But 1 cool thing about Astegue Island is that there are wild horses everywhere. Um, another cool thing is that it’s like forty miles long and it’s all national park pretty much. Um, so it’s all preserved. There’s no like restaurants on the island or hotels or things like that. So. It’s really really awesome, but the other night at like ten thirty maybe eleven we were about to go to bed and I heard this like snort outside and I’m like no way. Um, because I I didn’t I was like that’s not a horse you know like horses don’t just hang out. And campgrounds at Eleven zero pm so I flashed my flashlight out there because I’m like I’m not walking out if it is a wild horse and ah sure enough dude. There were 3 wild horses right behind our camper like chilling by the fire pit eating the grass and stuff and ah one of them was a baby.
Andrew And they were just up walking Around. It was really Cool. So but it did poop by my generator so I had to had to be careful. You know walking to and from that after the fact but it’s good man was good. Yeah minor sunburn lot of good Memories. And I think we’ll try to do that Again. It was it was solid. Yeah how you doing what’s happening I know you got big spiders drop my mic. You are muted my friend you’re looking like you’re you’re laying it down but you were fully muted.
Josh I oh there we go I wonder I don’t I don’t know how that happened I don’t remember hitting that button. Um, yeah, we’ve been camping a few gets been a month or so ago and where we camp.
Andrew Yep, yeah.
Josh Ah, they use for Grazeland for cows. So there’s cows everywhere usually only in the morning and then they I don’t know where they go move on to somewhere else. Ah, but we had we had one cow. No joke lick our rocks around the campfire for like an hour and a half they’re just standing in the campfire looking rocks. Yeah, you know.
Andrew And really, um, right, right? right? right? Yeah yeah.
Josh You know to do with it. It’s a cow You can’t like you want to like shoot it or something like that and then get kicked by a freaking cow so you just like let it be and do its thing. But yeah, but there was cow patties Cow patties everywhere which.
Andrew Yeah, a two thousand two Thousand pound cow yeah did he eat them. Did he try and.
Josh Jack Jack was pretty good. My dog like he didn’t he stayed away from him some of the other dogs with us big fan and ran around with him. But yeah, my dog my dog usually likes to roll around in that stuff and you’re just like I’ll kill you but he he behaves.
Andrew Oh gross. The worst thing about that with Jack is that he’s has wiry hair and he’s white like white hair. So if he rolls in poop he gets probably like you really got to do a deep clean to get that out.
Josh Ah, he did not get beat that weekend.
Josh Um, know but you do but you can see it like how much will that suck if you had a dark dog and you’re like you would de pet him and all you do is get a handful of cow Poop or Horse poop on your hand.
Andrew Right? right? You just go start petting? Yeah yeah, yeah.
Josh That would be that’d be a bad day, especially camping where you’re like water is scarce right? Like we never bring enough. But yeah.
Andrew Yes, yeah, so yeah, man, you know so my my dog clementine who I like very rarely talk about on this podcast but she’s a great dog Josh knows her um, but. 1 thing about clementine is she hates riding in the car. She’s like beyond stressed out the whole time you’re riding in the car and I put her in the trunk. Ah loaded I had loaded everything else put her in the trunk and we’re like taking off down the road.
Josh You should. You should probably clarify. You should clarify that you guys have like an Suv and not like a car with a real trunk that she each he shoved his dog inside of.
Andrew What? Yeah yeah, it’s a yeah yeah, yeah totally yeah, not yeah, it’s not. It’s not like a Honda cord with her in the back of the trunk. Ah so I’ve put her in the trunk and yeah and I like.
Josh And get reported.
Andrew Just I was rushing I’m like finally we’re ready to go camp is hooked up. Girls are in their car seats like my our 2 little girls. You know we’re ready to go and I start pulling out and I turn off ah out of our driveway down the road and we’re like maybe 60 seconds into the drive max.
Andrew And oh no, we didn’t even leave the driveway I got in the car and started the car and clementine in her sheer panic and terror jumps over the backseat in between the car seats. And hunkers down like lays down just panting like like totally Terrified. Um and it freaked my youngest daughter out so bad like so bad because she’s like she did not know that could happen.
Andrew She didn’t know that was a possibility because normally I like tie Clementine’s leash about around something back there so she can’t do that stuff I forgot and dude I’ll tell you what I I actually had to get our daughter out of her car seat so that I could pick clementine up because she was doing.
Andrew Everything she could to fight me but the whole rest of the trip anytime Clementine popped her head up my youngest daughter just like lost it like she totally thought she was coming over a kid so it made for a little bit of a stressful ride.
Josh Oh gosh.
Andrew Back and forth to the beach. But you know I did not make them mistake twice once she was locked in she was locked in. So yeah man.
Josh That’s fine. Yeah Jack pretty much has free rain in my car I know that because his hair is everywhere like it not just little hair. It’s just chunks of hair everywhere and you vacuum are all up and it feels like it’s back like within 24 hours
Andrew Ah, oh it’s funny man in your nice truck. Poor guy, poor guy dude. Ah yeah man, what are are you you doing anything.
Josh It’s like stupid dog sheds constantly. Oh you know do what else is new.
Andrew I was going to say are you doing anything cool like I know summer is winding down any big plans like our last camping trips or things like that before it’s like frigid winter in Colorado for you because there’s no fall in Colorado which just goes from summer to winter.
Josh Know me. Well like not real winter like we say winter here. It’s winter. Yeah, but like you think of like the dakotas or Montana They have real winter where snow lands on the ground and doesn’t leave until may we don’t We. Don’t get that kind of thing. But.
Andrew And like with one day of leaf change. Yeah yeah.
Andrew True right? right? right.
Josh Ah, now nowhere plans. It’s actually supposed the highest 65 I think on Saturday and Sunday so I think it shoots back up after that. But yeah, we’re we’re starting to hit those.
Andrew What whoa nice so you might dude you might plan on doing some leaf peeping you know which I never do people said that until I moved to Colorado but people are talking. Are you going leave peeping I’m like.
Josh Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m ah yeah I’m a I’m a big peeper and that’s what we like to call ourselves peepers got drive up into the mountain towns and and check out the checkout. This is a different kind of peeping.
Andrew What yeah, the big people.
Josh We’re not talking like peeping Tom kind of peeping don’t look at people’s windows guys. You’ll go to jail for that. That’s that’s bad day but only tree peeping is a cloud in our state.
Andrew No no, that’s actually the way you do it. There’s there’s There’s just some people that just admire foliage you know, like pull up in a nice parking lot. Enjoy some like big views. Yeah.
Josh Forage itself sounds like a dirty word too I know why it sounds like a dirty word but it does.
Andrew But when you’re when you’re leaf dude when you’re actually leaf peeping what you do is you sneak through the woods and you kind of peer out around trees like think golem. You know you kind of peer out around trees like one eye and just peep a nice leaf man you check it out you peep on it. So.
Josh Yeah, it’s and sometimes to yeah like to properly peep sometimes depending on the type of leaves you’re looking at you get pretty close so you know you you want to you want to catch the leaf in its natural habitat like you don’t want to scare it startle it.
Andrew That’s what Josh means when he says he’s the big people. Yeah. Come on.
Andrew Right? Yeah, no.
Josh And it you know change or something like so you got to kind of sneak up on it a little bit um typically come in from behind is safe. Not always. That’s not always the case with animals right? like some animals kick if come behind if you like come up on behind ah a black bear like probably going to try to eat or something.
Andrew Right? Like cows right? right? Yeah yeah, dude yeah.
Josh Ah, yeah, but leafs you deaf who want to come in from behind as quietly as possible just to get a good peep at it and then ah yeah, if you can now it’s a little difficult to get a picture of your peeping. But if you can snap that photo you get you get pretty big money.
Andrew Um, yeah, yeah mean you don’t want to be you don’t want to be the reason that leaf falls you know that’s why peeping’s important. It’s conservation people peep well proper proper peeping.
Josh Like you can sell those things. Yeah, yeah, well you want? Yeah, always yeah I always recommend too like you want to you want to peep early in the season just because the the peeping and the the bird birding community.
Andrew Means you don’t You’re not the reason that lead falls. Yeah.
Josh They don’t get along that. Well so you don’t really want to be out there during the birding the height of the birding season. Um, there’s a lot of it’s been a lot of incidences through through the last few years probably because of covid right? A lot more people getting outside because they couldn’t do anything else and but yeah, a lot of.
Andrew Right? for right? Yeah I would think So yeah, yeah, there was the there was a yeah yeah yeah, bird flew scare.
Josh Lot of stabbing incidences arguments. Yeah, not, it’s not pretty. Yeah.
Andrew It was yeah it was a rough peeping season all around. But I’m glad I’m glad we took the first ten minutes to make sure everybody really knows like proper peeping technique. How to snap that photo make sure you’re on quiet mode even do not disturb if you’re going to be snapping pictures out there. Um.
Josh Um, yeah, um, gang and. Yeah, yeah, and if you’ve never done it before I highly recommend. Just go to Google and just type in the word peeping nothing else just peeping and see what comes up.
Andrew Yeah, yeah.
Andrew But ah, that’s right just peeping. Yeah and that oh dude. Okay I wonder this really makes me wonder if there is a um podcast about leaf peeping called Proper peeping.
Josh Unless you’re a child. Don’t do that if you’re a child because I don’t I don’t know what is going to come up so I don’t want to recommend that.
Andrew Um, because that would be awesome if so um, it’s low key a stalker podcast but it’s all framed as leaf peeping. Um yeah anyway, dude that’s yeah.
Josh I would assume so.
Josh Yeah I would I would assume so what? what before we get into the topic at hand because I’ll be honest I’m not really in the mood to talk about serious things today. But ah what what projects are you working on right now. What are you working towards? What do you got going on.
Andrew Yes, right.
Andrew Man, Um, let’s see you know? Ah, there’s I I still have to finish a little bit more stuff in our basement and by that I mean ah like this just all the least fun stuff of construction.
Josh Anything fun.
Andrew Um I have to finish which is like putting a ceiling back in. We’re gonna do a drop. We pulled the whole drop ceiling out and and I need to put that back in. Um so I guess that’s one project I need to restart and just get done. So it’s not hanging over me anymore. A couple things I’m excited to do ah between now and like snow starting is that we have I cut down this one big tree by the chicken coope and I’m planning to chop it up mainly into firewood. But I’m hoping to like potentially do some rough cut lumber. Out of a little section of it and try to make something cool with it like maybe an outdoor table or something so that’s been like in the back of my mind of like hey that could be a really cool project to try to work on or even just shelving. You know something cool. Um, otherwise man like. Work is really good. Um, been been working on like all we were reflecting on on how much we’ve actually used the camper that we got. We got it in like early spring and I think that since we got it to now which is like you know, just after labor day. I think we’ve spent maybe like 14 or 15 nights in the camper as a family um, which to me I feel pretty pumped about that like we’ve really, we’ve gotten on some adventures with it and ah.
Josh Danny was pretty up.
Andrew Janna and I were talking and that that had just been kind of like a dormant part of our life. You know that we just hadn’t like hadn’t done much adventuring because we’d been moving and raising our little girls and all of that. But like. The the camper was kind of the catalyst to be like okay we can get out. We can do this we can enjoy it and it’s been really fun. So not in working actively towards it right now. In fact I think we’re going to sell our popup camper probably in about a month. Um. And then in the spring or or like late winter I think we’re gonna buy a different camper because we’re definitely keeping that alive. Um, but I want to be really intentional, long term to keep like outdoors and adventures and trips like that just something normal. And our lives because it’s been really fun. So yeah men. Um I don’t know. Yeah, so there’s like there’s ah if you googled Jco J feather that would give you the right idea. It’s like.
Josh That’s cool. What what kind of trailer are you looking for.
Andrew And there’s a lot of stuff that would come up with that. But there’s these kind of hybrid campers where they’re hard sided so when you pull up, you just level it and you’re good to go? Um, but the j feathers are super cool because they are hard sided but and like pretty light. But on each end they still have a bed that pops out so you get your maximum inside space usage plus your beds pop out. Um, so I think that style camper um would be ideal um something maybe like eighteen twenty feet long hard sided. Easy to get in and out of pre-trip. Um, and then just like you know, still easily toable lots of places. So yeah, man, that’s ah, that’s the hope is that we can sell ours for somewhat close to what we got it for after putting some good miles in use on it. And then ah then do a slight change and a little bit of an upgrade but nothing nothing too crazy put about you man. What? what like projects and oh go ahead.
Josh So is it. Um, so like is the plan you keep upgrading like at some point is or is the the Hanna Klan going to have like a fifth wheel.
Andrew Dude I don’t know I to me actually to me that would be way too big like to have a really big fifth wheel or a motorhome something like that. It’s not appealing to me right now maybe and like and honestly. In like 20 years when the kids aren’t camping with us I imagine ah Janna and I would like downgrade in size like we would get a little bit smaller of like a super small kitchen and ah and a nice bed and like that’s it, you know, but like easy to get. Anywhere in boondock with that would be the ideal. Um, instead of going way. Bigger. But I think like a jfeather size camper could serve us for like 10 years You know like I think we could use it a long time and be pumped about it. We’re looking for one with bunks. So like. Ah, bunk you know Bunk Beds plus like a Queen um, so three bed set up solid should be good to go for a long time if we can do that? yeah man. Yeah, man yeah Hannah’s Hanna is on the go.
Josh Nice. That’s cool dude and then you just start the Youtube channel and you know pay the bills there you go. There’s plenty. There’s plenty of families out there and your your kids have enough character too that like they probably steal the show see me.
Andrew Yeah, this what’s up. Yeah, totally Yes, they do dude That’s right people do love that people do love that.
Josh You can make even more money off your children which people love when you do that they do. They’re like name these parents making so much money off their kids. That’s awesome. That’s what they say they get very excited but they keep watching your videos.
Andrew Yeah, yeah.
Andrew Yeah, yeah, way to be way to be parentsrots. Ah yeah man Dude What about you Any yeah, any big big projects. How’s how’s Hill City going I know we should get to our topic at some point but we got time. How’s how’s church.
Josh There’s that too.
Josh Yeah, ah, it’s good I’ve been out of pocket for the last few weeks um and things kept going so that’s always a good sign that it’s working and culture is in place and it’s reproducing itself.
Andrew As life.
Andrew Um, right? um.
Andrew Um, dude. Yeah, um, yeah.
Josh Um, yeah, great leaders that can lead and just step up and take care of things that in all honesty I wasn’t even doing anyways like they were already doing these things so me being gone didn’t really change much. But yeah, we’re we’re working towards monthly services. So here in.
Andrew Then it’s awesome.
Andrew Um, yeah, nice.
Josh Less than two months now oh no two months from today. Um, we’ll have our first monthly service. We’ll do that for a few months and then we’re shooting for the beginning of March for our weekly service launch so you know for us, we.
Josh We do services because we’re part of the American Church and that’s the expectation right? like you know are at the core of everything that we do we we want to be making disciples. So unfortunately as much as we’d love to believe is preachers that are preaching creates disciples.
Andrew Yeah, yeah.
Josh It doesn’t It’s proven to not over the last you know, handful of decades. It doesn’t work. It’s you know it’s an intentional leader inside of a yeah intentional leader inside a relational environment trying to work a reproducible process. So that’s kind of at the core of everything we do. But um.
Andrew Um, right, not alone. Yeah.
Josh Sunday morning services are a great front door um to get people in and to check things out so we could push them towards that engagement. But yeah, so those are kind of the big things going on and we have groups starting back up, you know for the fall I think some groups start this week and then some groups start next week um think it just depends on the groups. But yeah, we got a lot of cool, um, cool things happening a lot of discciple makers getting released to disciple I got a handful of disciple potential discapple makers going through kind of our model of training right now.
Josh And they’re just starting that process so they may be they should be ready by time we launch. Hopefully you know typically we find like we take people through our model when we believe that they’re at the spiritual parent phase spiritual parents just a reproducing face right? We’re reproducing disciples and.
Josh Disciple makers and all those fun things but typically like we we have groups of like anywhere between 3 to 6 and usually half of that actively starts discipling after that. So that’s that’s a pretty big win. So we’ll have potentially 3 or 4
Andrew Um, that’s awesome.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Josh Disciple makers actively trying to live out this shared vision. It just comes from the great commission. You know Matthew 28 where jesus said go into all the world make disciples. So’s we’re trying to do not trying to focus on building a church or building a crowd of people like.
Andrew That’s huge. Yeah yeah.
Josh Measure success based on how many people are growing through our process of discipleship and how many people are being released to be discipple makers. So yeah, so it’s Terrac citing to quote a buddy of ours. Um, like.
Andrew Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s right.
Josh Becoming real for the long time. It’s been like this little fun project with this group of people that most time just feels like you know, just hanging out and having fun and try to be intentional. But yeah, now it’s now it’s the doors are opening that becomes a little bit more scary not because we don’t think it’s going to work. It’s proven itself to work. Our models worked over the last year
Andrew So yeah, yeah, wow.
Andrew Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh Um, and it’s not our model right? It’s Jesus’ ‘ model you know with with language built around it by the relational sideship network. Um, so we’re just coming in and standing on you on the shoulders of of giants that overcome before us. But um, yeah, it’s cool to see cool to see it lived out cool to see the cool things happening.
Andrew Yeah man.
Josh Just a bunch of little things to you that just wait god provides. But yeah, that’s most my focus these days outside of work. It’s is that that and we’re we’re also starting a handful of podcasts as well here in the next few weeks we are yeah.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Andrew Are you really? Wow So you will be will you be in multiple podcasts. What’s going on would ah give us the teaser man that’s cool.
Josh We’ll see.
Josh Yeah, um, one of the podcasts we’re we’re calling practice disciple um and it’s it’s essentially helping disciple makers. Not necessarily become disciple makers. We won’t spend a lot of time on Method. We’ll spend a lot of time On. Just the leader side of things of like what do you do when you fail. Um, you know where are the hard points. What are the things you have to push through kind of the emotional thought side of it all more so than the method Side. We’ll talk through the method just so you know everyone has the same language and understands what we’re talking about. But.
Andrew Um, yeah, okay.
Josh Um, we’re trying to get on the the personal side of the leader. So those that are just starting the journey of becoming a disciple maker like you know feel like they’re not alone and mostly do things like we’ll release them to put them out there. But um, the primary goal is for you know, giving resource to our people and then the other one is just a leadership culture.
Andrew Um, me.
Andrew Um, nice. Wow.
Josh Podcasts in terms like how do you actually build a culture around these ideas. How do you build a culture that is sustainable with systems that support it and you know celebrations that reinforce it So we’ll kind of talk through all that of too but selfishly it’s really just to get.
Andrew Um, yeah, dude.
Josh My disciple makers and my leadership team talking about these things. Um, no I’ve told them that I’ve told my whether people listen I Really don’t care and I just want this dedicated time where we’re going to gather to talk through these things just because like it’s the same thing that’s happened with you and I on the podcast right? like.
Andrew Shh don’t tell don’t say that. Okay, okay, all right? Ah, nice. Yeah.
Josh It solidifies a lot of our thoughts and beliefs about certain things or how we approach certain things and I think that’s it’s highly value when you have to teach somebody else something man do you learn something pretty darn quick. So yeah, those are my big things. Nothing super crazy. Just.
Andrew Dude, big time. Yeah, that’s huge. Yeah yeah, that’s that’s really cool man and you know praise god for like making it what it is today. You know.
Josh Yeah, starting to church.
Andrew I remember when um I don’t know like a year and a half ago maybe you were sick and and like had to take some weeks off of of doing the church stuff and a lot of things kind of faded out a little bit. Um and you kind of had to restart. And you know out of that came I think more committed people and ah man it’s really cool that you know you’re you’re out of out of pocket for a few weeks with family stuff that we don’t have to get into it all now. We’ll save that for whenever the time feels right? but um. You know like the church kept going and discipleship kept happening and I feel like you’ve gone the the slower and more intentional patient route and and I think god’s going to bless it if you stay on the right track you and the team you know because now there is an awesome team.
Andrew Around you Jen and I are fans from afar praying for you guys praying for the church often. Um, but yeah man, it’s ah it’s really cool to see you know god’s god’s at work and and it’s pretty awesome. It’s what’s up. So yeah, man.
Josh Yeah, yeah, it’s a fun journey. It’s it’s nice to do ministry with friends by the way if you ever have an opportunity I would take the opportunity.
Andrew It is. Yeah yeah I’ve only I’ve only ever done it with enemies. You know. So so one day um, just kidding I mean you and I you and I Yeah yeah, this funny? Yeah, no man.
Josh The Well there’s shoot this. There’s there’s been seasons where it’s felt like enemies. No doubt about that.
Andrew I mean that’s where our friendship started. You know back in the day I remember I remember when so Jana people if you’re listening you probably have no idea unless you maybe you do I don’t know but Jana signed up for an apprenticeship in Colorado.
Josh Why? Yeah so.
Andrew Ah, because we had a friend at Indiana Wesley where we went who had been through this apprenticeship program with our buddy Alan Briggs um who now leads an awesome business called stay forth designs. But um anyway i.
Andrew We had a friend Zach who was like you guys should come check out this apprenticeship like Jana wasn’t positive if she was called in ministry full time she had studied youth ministry and psychology but was like I don’t know am I going to be pastor am I not like I’m not sure and. There was a fifteen month apprenticeship at the church. We all used to go to where you and I met and Josh I remember like a couple weeks into being in Colorado might have been a couple months times fuzzy um it all flies and takes a long time at the same time but ah. I remember coming into the youth service and it was like the first fifteen minutes was like games and hanging out and then like from stage it was like getting everybody engaged with like some you know, big group game on stage and it was like I was just so uncomfortable I’m like what. Is this like this is so different than what I grew up with like what are we doing you know and and slowly over time I like I figured out that even back then like it was all about relationship like you’re not going to You’re not going to be able to speak in. People’s lives if. They don’t like you and trust you and want advice from you that they’re actually open like especially with youth but probably with adults too if they’re not actually like trusting you enough to ask you questions about what’s really going on in their life. They’re never going to listen to the answers. You’re giving you know.
Andrew Like people need to like you and trust you as a starting place if they’re ever going to talk to you about like spiritual matters. Let alone just what’s going on with them to begin with so anyway man over time I became all about. Ah, that that model of Youth Ministry and like I have a lot of fond memories of of what we got to do and be a part of there. Um, you know it’s where our friendship forms. Um, and you know there were the occasional like winter retreats and Mission camps and all those things that.
Andrew Were really awesome, but really, it was just the weekend week out Sunday morning Wednesday night all that it was. It was pretty awesome. So yeah man it was good to be good to be in and also opened my eyes to what ministry maybe should look like or could look like in a way that. That makes it workable in our world today because everybody wants to be known and connected and and loved by people. Um, especially people that love Jesus and actually love them. So yeah, man.
Josh And it’s and I think that’s the hardest part of all this is you know we we touch the surface of of relationship and what does it look like you know in in youth ministry but nowhere near to the level we needed to and. Even now like you know you hear it all the time people are desperate for for a community. They’re desperate to be known and to know others but most people especially people we come in contact with through Hill City most people don’t want it right? They want it but they don’t want to put in the work. It requires to actually have it.
Andrew Um, yeah, yeah, sorry.
Josh Um, and this is your relationship with God your relationship with people you know relationships relationship plays by the same rules. Um, and it takes so much time it takes so much Trust it takes so much you know vulnerability. It takes so much like all of these things you got to keep showing up even when you don’t want to um, all these things that.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Josh Ah, the sacrifice level that it does take like yeah I read through the gospels and I read through. Um the new testament and you know the the new testament writers have been talking about this the whole time and I just missed it like this is what it means to sacrifice. This is what it means. Living Community. You got to push through the awkward phase. Ah ah of New relationship. Whether it’s with God with others. It’s going to be awkward and it happens um and that’s okay, but when we push through those things and um, sorry I just I’m getting weird text messages from people I got distracted.
Andrew Um, in it who. Um, yeah, yeah, you.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Josh But we push all those things and you get to the depth and fruit of those things like they’re so worth it. They’re still hard. Don’t get wrong relationships hard. It will always be hard. There’s no way around it. But it’s the hard things in life where we find the most fruit so we keep pushing into those things like you know you go through tragedy in your life like I don’t.
Andrew Right? right. Um, yeah.
Josh Like I just recently went through tragedy and I don’t know how people do it without Jesus and I don’t know how people do it without community around them like that’s that’s that’s a hard place to live um and you know though it takes time and though it takes.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Josh Intentionality and though it takes sacrifice to have healthy relationships around you and a healthy growing relationship with God Um, and is it worth it like it’s worth the uncomfortableness. It’s worth feeling exposed. It’s worth you know giving trust when you know, maybe it’s earlier than you would normally give trust. But.
Andrew Yeah, ah yeah.
Josh Yeah, so now that we’re like I don’t know 30 minutes into this podcast. It’s probably a good idea. We keep this series going. Ah I don’t I don’t know I don’t know if we have a name for this series I don’t remember um I do know we’re going through all the different interactions that Jesus had with people.
Andrew Um, yeah, yes, right I suppose. So yeah.
Andrew We’re just continuing the relationship series but but it’s like Jesus in relationship but we didn’t title it necessarily but that’s what it is. That’s what it is? Yeah yeah.
Josh Um’s like we did it. We did a series on. Yeah I think yeah, what can we learn? Yeah and it’s like how can we? What can we learn from Jesus in his interactions with people.
Josh I think is kind of the point and we’ve talked of through a variety of different storms already. You can go back and listen to them find them wherever you’re listening to this podcast. Just go back if you or you can always go to our website at this Jesus Livepodcast dot com but yeah this week Andrew who are we talking about.
Andrew Yeah we’re talking about zachaus man we’re talking about zachaus and and if you know the story of Zachaus or if you don’t you’re in luck because I’m going to actually just go ahead and read it. It is it’s short. This is out of Luke 19 verses 1 through 10 this is what it says Jesus entered jericone was passing through a man was there by the name of Zachius he was the chief tax collector and was wealthy. He wanted to see who Jesus was but because he was short. He could not see over the crowd. So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore tree to see him since Jesus was coming that way when Jesus reached the spot. He looked up and said to him zachaus come down immediately I must stay at your house today. So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly. All the people saw this and began to mutter he is gone to be a guest of a sinner but Jesus stood up and said to the lord look lord here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor and if I have cheated anybody out of anything I will pay him back 4 times the amount. Jesus said to him today salvation has come to this house because this man too is a son of Abraham for the son of man came to seek and to save the lost. Um, yeah man I I read that because it was it was quick and I think we’ll set us up.
Andrew Well to talk about this but I might have I did emphasize short in there because if you’ve been in the church in your life, especially as a little kid you might have like sung songs about Zakiius but being a short man and like climbing a tree like this is a this is a story that a lot of kids ministries. Um, teach about because it’s like I don’t know it’s it’s pretty benign. You know he’s a short guy. He was a tax collector. It’s not you know David chopping the head off ah of Goliath and doing some crazy stuff like that. Um, so it’s one that is taught pretty widely. Um. But yeah man Zakius um, he was somebody that probably most the people around him. Um in Jericho probably hated because he was the chief tax collector and that’s why when people saw Jesus talking to him let alone saying I’m going to go to your house today. Um. Most of the people in the crowd were like who I thought Jesus was 1 thing but is he actually just a tool of Rome is he you know is he a tool of our oppressors that he wants to hang out with our chief local oppressor who’s getting into my wallet for taxes you know and maybe. Cheating me because that tax collectors had a reputation of adding a little more and pocketing you know pocketing the excess of whatever taxes actually were owed because the people were subjugated to rome so you know like.
Andrew During this time tax collectors could do whatever they wanted. They could say yeah your tax bill is fifty bucks but ah, it’s actually going to be 150 today and if you don’t pay it today I’m going to send you to jail you know and they did that. Um, so zach keys was the chief of the tax collectors. And he was apparently pretty short I don’t know how short he was but he was short enough that he had to climb a tree to see Jesus so um, yeah man, what? Ah what first thoughts do you have of of kind of how Zakius how Jesus related to Zakius and how you treated him.
Josh Yeah I I think the first thing is like Nisads Akius right? Like sure this dude in a tree you’re going to take notice of it. Um.
Andrew So yeah.
Josh It’s intentionality of like there’s certain individuals that Jesus went to certain towns for like there’s there’s a reason why he’s interacting with the people. He’s interacting with and um, you know I’d be curious like what what changed that key is his mind about it all like was he.
Andrew Um, for you.
Andrew Um, in.
Josh Was he already like he already here about this Jesus guy that you know was coming to town like why apparently he was interested enough to climb a tree so he could see what was going on around him. Um, but like it just seemed like he got to you know Lord pretty darn quick. Ah and not only that like.
Andrew Yeah, yeah, right. You hang.
Josh Drastically change my lifestyle and who I am and um, even those verses are like ah or is it 8 Um, you know look lord here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor and if I’ve cheated anyone out of anything I’ll pay back them 4 times the amount. Um like you always think of that of like.
Andrew You hear.
Josh Yeah, here’s a rich dude giving up half his money that he probably didn’t need anyways but half his possessions I would assume is ah is a pretty hefty sacrifice. Um, and we’ll talk by more about this when we get to the rich young ruler conversation or interaction.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Andrew Yeah, yeah.
Josh But um, the there’s this piece of of dependence right? that we have to have on Jesus and I think this is why Jesus said like it’s it’s difficult for you know the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. You know it’s easier for a camel to.
Andrew In him.
Andrew Um, yeah, you know.
Josh You know, go through the eye of a needle kind of thing. Um and it’s because and you know we’re we’re rich in terms of what we’re able to do in America compared to the rest of the world like we’re we’re not often left wanting sure sure there’s times of of difficulty but like in general um we can take care of ourselves.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Andrew Sure. Yes, yeah, right.
Josh Um, we don’t need to depend on anything else or anyone else we can take care of you know all those different elements and I think that’s that the core of what this is like Paul has his conversation and I guess not really conversation is this revelation in second corinthians um.
Josh I want to say it’s like 12 but I’ll post it here. Yeah 12 um where he makes this statement about about god and it’s like god quoting something to him and he says my grace is sufficient for you for my power is made perfect in a weakness. Um, and Paul is complaining about a thorn in his side and in this conversation and this is god’s response to him like I think it’s a powerful word like my power is made perfect. My in weakness. So like there’s this There’s this piece of of our weakness that we have to lean into um which is.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Josh Extremely countercultural to how we’re told to live this life even in the church How we’re told to live this life like we should be independent. We should be self-sufficient all these things and the reality is we should We should sacrifice in a way is that put us in a position where we have to be dependent on god.
Andrew Ah, yeah.
Josh Um, and I think that’s what Zakias is doing here like he’s he’s giving away half of all he owns I would assume as the chief tech collector. He has a pretty large family as well and like that typically comes along with all. There’s a lot of people that are relying on him and what he can provide sure he stole money and how he got it. But.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Josh He had it and if he was anything like me if I have the money I’m going to change my lifestyle because I have the money if I don’t have the money then your your lifestyle drastically gets cut back. But if we have it. We usually spend it ninety ninety percent of the um you know? Yeah, the inful people out there a lot more responsible than the rest of us and.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Andrew Um, yeah, right.
Josh You know they keep living off what they had but majority of us we get. We get a raise and we’re like new car. We get a raise or like bigger house and we get a new raise time to upgrade to the the fifth wheel right? like that’s our our mindset through the dudes living pretty well like he’s using all these this money like he’s using all these luxuries.
Andrew Right? right? right? right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh He’s he’s placed in his life and now he’s saying I’m going to cut out half of them God and because I want to learn how to just depend on you. Um, like there’s going to be things that we’re going to be needing. There’s going to be things that we’re going to be left wanting that we’re not going to be able to take care of ourselves and we’re going to have to have to rely on you and.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Josh I Think it’s It’s a practice inside of christianity that we lost along the way probably with the American dream. But um I would say probably other parts of the world too struggle with the same things you know in the in modern you know cultures. But um.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Andrew Yeah man.
Josh It’s just been something that’s been rattling around in my head for the last probably I don’t know three or four weeks someone sent me a podcast a while back about just us embracing the weakness our weaknesses. So god’s power can be seen in our lives and the lives of those around us and um.
Andrew Um, and.
Andrew Him and.
Josh When I saw who the podcast was from I was like yeah, not really interested but I respected the person that sent it to me so I listened to it anyways and um, you know that’s kind of where it started then yeah I just went through you know a tragedy in the family and definitely felt you know out of control and and weak in terms of how you can help and.
Andrew Yeah, yeah.
Josh It’s just in those moments that god could show up and and I think it’s it’s a ah, a practice inside of our lives and I don’t have the answers I don’t know what it means yet practically to increase our dependence on god hopefully when we get you know in a couple of weeks here to the.
Andrew Yeah, yeah.
Josh Rich young ruler and we can I can bring all this up again I’ll have more answers for you. But right now like I know it’s a need and if you do it? Well like you figured out ways to to create a dependence on God in your life I’d love to hear it? Um, what’s worked what hasn’t worked.
Josh Um, where is it just a facade of something and it’s not real that I can avoid reach out to us I’d I’d love to have the conversation hello at this julivefodcast.com and we’ll respond back. But I think there’s something there. There’s something to creating a dependence on god so in the midst of our weakness god can be so.
Andrew Yeah, yeah.
Josh His power can be seen. Um, you know around around us and around what’s going on. But um, yeah, those are my initial thoughts that opt out to me.
Andrew Um, yeah I think so dude a couple I think those are really spot on and and you know Zachius. He was rich like and even if he gives gives half his possession the way and he lives up to his promise to to pay back anybody 4 times more than he cheated them if he did which I assume he said that knowing like yeah I’ve cheated people. That’s why I’m willing to do this like and he said it all in public like there’s no it doesn’t necessarily this story doesn’t say Jesus and Zaius traveled to his house and had a quiet conversation over a meal one on one like in my mind this dude is still in the tree.
Josh Um, yeah.
Andrew While they’re having this conversation like he’s talking and I could be wrong, but that’s how I read it. It’s like maybe he came down. Maybe he’s still in the tree but they are talking in front of a lot of other people who are grumbling like why is Jesus going into this. Why is jesus going to spend time with the sinner. You know the sinner. Bad man um a couple other thoughts been Zaius like the people who were grumbling. why would the why would he associate with this center. They probably ignored Zachaius in everyday life. They probably like steered clear of him. Because like I said the the romans said collect this tax and we’ll have peace fail to collect this tax and we’re going to you know, go to war again with your kingdom with your nation essentially um because that’s what rome did um but ah. Everybody probably avoided za qius and probably didn’t call him by name unless they had to probably didn’t look at him unless they had to and when they did look at him. It was probably like sneers and like oh that center that bad guy all that stuff um so I think man I think he was probably right on the verge already of like I think and this is guessing you know I’m not a preacher I’m not a theologian but I think Zachius was probably already ready to change his life once he encountered Jesus.
Andrew I think he probably never expected to have a conversation with them probably expected to be ignored and and kind of walked past, but at least like hey I was close to this guy. Um, and that probably would have been enough but I think when Jesus looked up in the tree and called him out by name. It was like wait a minute. Like he’s looking at me and he’s talking to me by name like he noticed me and he didn’t sneer at me. You know like it. It probably was very different than what most people treat it the way most people treated Zachaius um, and I think. That’s ah, that’s a guess but that’s how I read the story and see the story in my mind’s eye um is that Jesus like somehow knew zaius’ name um, recognized his face knew exactly who he was and then said hey there’s already a plan I’m coming to your house today. Zachius immediately went everybody knows me as rich. That’s probably the thing he pursued his whole life was wealth and he immediately went I’m going to surrender that to Jesus I’m going to surrender that to this god that that he’s talking about and preaching about and living out like. And I think that 1 thing that Jesus was a clear master of was calling out the thing in people’s lives that they put on god’s throne and and then bringing them to a decision point of what are you going to do about it right in that moment you know.
Andrew For Zaius it was probably wealth that probably would have been the next line of like Zachaius where did you get all this wealth. You know to where he had the chance to say oh I just collect taxes or I cheat I cheated people out of it and I have to do something about that. You know, but. Zakiius jumped right to that like you are the lord and I’m going to follow you and I’m giving away half my possessions to the poor and if any of ah if I’ve cheated any of you. Um, you can come to me and I’ll pay you 4 times. Whatever I cheated you because. I am not the same zacheia today as I was in the past you know like this revolutionary switch happened and ah and it’s pretty cool man like but I think 1 thing about Jesus in relationship with people is that he actually sees people and that. Sounds like small you know or sounds like a nothing point but he doesn’t just see like there’s this crowd and I have to walk through them but he would see the crowd and he would see every individual in that crowd like the woman who. Touched him and touched his robe and was healed. He noticed immediately. He’s like no, it’s not just a crowd somebody touched me and power went out at me and healed somebody what happened somebody had faith behind me, you know Zachaius it wasn’t just like who’s that short guy in a tree in a nice robe.
Andrew You know was like no, that’s zaus I have a plan I’m gonna reach him and his family and and that’s not gonna be the same zacheus going forward as it was in the past because god is ready to meet with him. Um, you know so is that like Jesus really saw people. And and I think people knew that and I think that’s maybe why they were like I’m willing to trust you with the thing that I’ve put all my trust in for my whole life and I’m willing to do that out of 1 conversation. Be it as quick as the ones Zaki has had or 1 maybe like. Ah, we talked about a few weeks ago with nicodemus like a series of conversations. But um, yeah man, that’s that’s where I go is like god always calls you to like what’s that thing you’ve put on my throne um instead of me. And and what are you going to do about it in this moment and yeah I know I’ve been rambling on. Um, but I’ll just say like once I became a father um and now I have 2 amazing little girls. It’d be pretty easy to put ah to put my family. On the throne ahead of god you know and say like no god’s just a thing that’s sometimes a part of my life. but um but I got to be really intentional to say like no if I’m going to be the man that I need to be the father I need to be the husband need to be all of that like I got to be.
Andrew Pursuing the lord first like relationship with the lord first and then letting that play into every other aspect of my life life like how I am as a father. How I am as a dad or how I am as a husband how I am as an employee and a friend all of that has to all flow. Out of that. But ah but I think it’s it’s easy to slowly put something else on the throne. Um, and if if you don’t know Jesus yet. There’s probably already something on the throne. Um on gut’s throne because I think all of us were made to worship something as people so there’s like 15 thoughts in a row.
Andrew Sorry to ramble at you but hopefully that was decently coherent.
Josh Yeah I think too like I was just thinking this as I’m like rereading this it says um, Jesus reached the spot. He looked up at him and said zakeas come down immediately. Ah, so he came down at once and welcomed him gladly and then it says but zakiah stood up and said to the lord I I think it gives us a picture if we really like break it apart. What’s happening here like versus is this Jesus just walking right? like he’s not.
Andrew I had.
Josh Um, he’s not teaching right now. He’s not you know, explaining theology. He isn’t performing even miracles. He’s just walking through and sure there’s a crowd around him and all that and um, it’s ah it’s a spectacle. Um, but like.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Josh It was Jesus himself that that that zachaus was attracted to or drawn to like I just I just had the verse where Jesus quotes and says are Jesus quoted in saying you know, no one comes to the father except through me like. He didn’t believe doctrine he didn’t have to believe theology he he just went straight to Jesus and that’s kind of this picture so like it’s I picture it this way of here he is in this tree Jesus says his name he jumps down off this tree and it says he welcomes him. Gladly I would assume he wraps his arms around Jesus’s legs and I say legs because it says he stood up. You know later on like he fell to the ground he he had a a moment with the real god you know in physical form and just wrapped his arms around him like it wasn’t It was just a highly for lack of a better term set. Yeah and have great language is like it was a highly emotional moment where this this guy just got to encounter Jesus um, and then you know everything that that comes out of that. But. I just think we we miss those moments in our lives today too like we’re so focused on the other things of the religion of christianity that we just forget the relationship piece of like I’m just going to love Jesus like um, that’s my focus that’s where I’m going like I’m going to follow his lead wherever he tells me to go.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Josh I’m to trust that. That’s the best place to go no matter what it is um but I would think like when we evaluate our own lives is is that how we we come up to Jesus how we encounter him is how we encountered him for the first time was it this moment of just recognizing that he’s Lord. Um, and I just I just want to be as close as I possibly can to him I’m ah at my arms around his legs or you know was it a sterile moment. Was there something lacking or even your day to-day like is that how you approach him now of just such a deep love. Um for who he is like.
Andrew Um e.
Josh I think there’s something to that and ah, you can get there and I know you can because I speak from you know experience like just keep foster relationship with Jesus keep choosing to be vulnerable. Keep choosing to talk about the hard things um, keep choosing you know conversation a relationship um keep reading his word in relationship. You know, whatever that jumping off point is that.
Andrew You know.
Josh He uses from his recorded words to jump off into a conversation with him like keep fostering those things keep choosing to give trust um, you know you got to spend time with with somebody for relationship reform. You can learn a lot of facts about somebody by stocking their Facebook page but you don’t actually know that person and I think a lot of lot of peeping going on.
Andrew Peeping right.
Josh And I think a lot of I think a lot of christians are stuck in that place. They don’t actually know Jesus and I think it’s going to be a terrifying rude awakening for them at some point. Um, but because they just they never got to know him. They just have facts and figures about him. They knew that he did this on that day and he did that on that day.
Andrew And yeah.
Josh But they never knew him relationally so dig into that I’m telling you guys as someone speaking from existence. There’s nothing that that’s going to change your life more than walking in relationship actual relationship. Not just the facade of it or you know the the fancy thing to talk about but actual relationship with god.
Andrew Yeah, yeah, man and I know I know we’ve been going almost an hour but you know from the story I do think there’s a decent chance that Zaius was a pretty experienced leafpeer. You know he probably knew.
Josh Um, you’re going to be blown away by what he does and how he does it mean.
Andrew Proper peeping techniques. Um, he was up in a fig tree you Knowy a mort fig tree and he was up close and personal and you know when you’re a short guy leaf peeping he yeah right.
Josh Yeah, like he got right up in there. You wanted to see it.
Josh And I’m picturing. Yeah and I’m picture I don’t know what a fig tree looks like it’s been a long time. So I think they’re actually pretty short trees if I remember correctly but I’m picturecturing leaning over a little bit so like he snuck up on it like ah like a proper peeper um to get a good view of that.
Andrew Right? right? Yeah yes, properly from ah that’s right? Yeah, yeah, that’s right.
Josh It’s like a more that sycamore fig. Um, yeah I wonder if like a sycamore tree. How fun would be of a sick Gu More tree is actually like um like a fit. It’s like a fern or something like it’s needles. It’s not even.
Andrew Would be funny. It’s I It’s actually there’s there’s one short joke in the bible and it’s actually in the saia story. It’s funny I’d be alarious. Um mi Yeah okay, all right, all right.
Josh Ah know it’s It’s a tree tree. It’s got. It’s got real leaves.
Andrew So he was proper peeping and and also peeping on Jesus and then climb down and he was right up and close. Yeah yeah man I mean right right.
Josh Yeah, he’s proper peopleing? Yeah, but but yeah, he started peeping he was attracted to him ran towards him I think you christians listen right now you’re still stuck in that peeping Face. You’re still peeping over the tree just looking at him at a distance and I’m telling you go grab the dude’s ankles like he’s calling your name. You don’t have to Peep. He wants to know you and be known by you right.
Andrew Right? right? You don’t have to peep all right note don’t don’t stay in that tree. You don’t have to keep peeping. Yeah yeah, that’s right, it’s right? Yeah, so if you’re ah if you’re checking this out for the first time. Thanks for listening. Now you know how to leaf peep properly proper peeping. Um, but yeah, when it comes to to Jesus and god you know, get out of that tree get down low stay close and he’s there for you. He’s good to you. It’s worth it. So.
Andrew Um, thanks my friend This was great and I’ll talk to you soon.
Josh See a buddy.