We continue with the new season this week and look at conversations Jesus had with different people. This week is Nicodemus. Nicodemus was one of the first people to hear from Jesus about this new life He was ushering in. Jesus was clear and full of compassion.
Verses – Nicodemus’ Conversation with Jesus.
Verses – Nicodemus at the Tomb.
Verses – 1 Peter 3:15
Resource – Bestself Icebreaker Cards
Take a Listen to Other Episodes in this Series.
Josh Hello hello hello hello we’re just 2 normal dudes trying to live this jesus life. My name’s Josh.
Andrew Hey I’m Andrew and we are this jesus life podcast Josh we’re back how you doing my friend. What’s going on with you.
Josh Dude Ah, it’s still summertime so things are still good. Can’t complain went camp in this last was it last weekend. Yeah I went camping last weekend. Sorry all my weeks are all blending together. Ah that was a lot of fun.
Andrew Yeah, yeah I think so yeah I think so yeah.
Josh It was nice to get away even though it rained a little bit not a ton but a little bit enough that like one afternoon it rained for like None and I slept in my tent for None because it finally cooled down enough to get in your tent for a nap and then it was raining.
Andrew Oh wow wow! that’s pretty nice yeah Yemen that’s the
Josh And raindrops on None are just fantastic. Ah yeah, but it was a it was a nice getaway.
Andrew That’s the best place to be when it’s raining while you’re camping is in your tent chilling out that’s awesome man nice I I did a lot of camping in the early summer as you know, but I haven’t like we haven’t done any camping since but.
Josh That is true.
Andrew Things have been so busy man between just projects host and some good friends. All kinds of stuff. Um, but None cool thing is our girls are now old enough that they both can like actively swim in the pool. My youngest one taught herself like really fast how to do it and obviously they both wear. Little life jacket deals but like it’s pretty cool now you can actually sit or like get in the pool or sit at the edge of the pool you got to be close still but like that’s been awesome. Ah, because that’s pretty much every day a couple times a day they’re getting in there. So. Been in as much time as ah as possible outside when I don’t have to be you know working you? what? yeah man. Yeah, it’s a win. Totally.
Josh Oh wear him out to get some sleep. They’ll wear him out. Um my nephew when he was like man he was young probably around a year they did water torture on him have you seen this before were they.
Andrew Yeah, oh no, no what? oh yeah, yeah because it is he made it through.
Josh Where they teach babies how to float but it just looks like water torture. Um, but it guess who figured it out. He’s he’s never drowned so he’s now like 11 So I think he’s figured it out but it worked.
Andrew Ah, question is does he remember how to float now that he’s 11 like did it carry through is he good swimmer or is he terrified of the water. Yeah yeah, could go either way. Yeah man dramatic. But ah, but yeah man i.
Josh Um’s a good question who knows yeah I have no idea I have to ask him.
Andrew Um, my wife’s in the background doing printer stuff and said it’s going to be really dramatic. So I don’t know what’s happening but printer problems but I was going to say at the end of the summer we are going beach camping which should be really cool over labor day weekend. We’re going to. Ah.
Andrew This national park where you can camp out on the beach and should be sweet So I’ve never done that before. Yeah yeah, Acidee Island. Yep yeah, man should be fun little different and there’s ah, there’s wild horses there. What.
Josh Is that the island.
Josh Nice You know what? I recently discovered again and this is like a camping treat Now it’s just my go to do you remember Cinnamon Bears The candy Cinnamon bears.
Andrew Wait Remember what cinnamon bears like the candy cinnamon bears. Yeah yeah, yeah, Huh Really I have not for.
Josh Yeah, if you haven’t had them recently. You need to because they are pure genius. So good that that and the other thing I’ve recently discovered ah Aba Zabas you ever have an Aba zaba.
Andrew So long man I feel like I was a kid at Halloween with that. Yeah, no, what is a nap. No no, what’s an app it Sava Hu
Josh We talk about this already if you like I feel like I showed somebody on video. Ah, it’s taffy. It’s like white taffy white. Sometimes it’s hard but it should be white soft taffy with peanut butter in the middle of it.
Andrew Um, who right right? What taffy with a is ebbit. No dude I’ve never had that that sounds delicious thing. Yeah.
Josh So good. They’re hard to find now I like most convenience sources I remember used to carry them. But now I got a whole box on Amazon it’s feeding my abba zaba itch.
Andrew Yeah that’s awesome dude when we have when we have candy in our house Jan and I either have to keep it 100% under wraps or like portion it out military style and like. Once a day you get None piece of candy at this very specific time. It’s crazy. But yeah, when there’s candy in the house like my older daughter never forgets. She’s always like she’s always thinking about candy at some level which is kind of funny but you know. Ah, feel like I was kind of that way too. Oh dude, my favorite my top candies would be swedish fish sour patch kids gummy worms gummy bears dude. But I love swedish fish. And yeah, yeah.
Josh What’s what’s your go to candy.
Josh Really Swedish fish stay in the gummy world. You’re a gummy fan. Okay, okay.
Andrew I’m about the gummy life I’m about that gummy life. What about you I know this Aba Zaba and Cinnamon bear kick but is that all time favorite or what are we? What are we talking? nice.
Josh Yeah App Zab is Aba Zab is are up there abba ze a top five I put it in there ah can never be to good reesees. Um, what else.
Andrew Yeah, Reese’s is awesome. Yeah.
Josh Ah, if you’re in the mood like a like a spree or like a chewy spree are these other called sprees something that um.
Andrew Who yeah yeah, the chewy yeah hundred percent yeah chewy sprees I’m just all about that chewy candy man you know, always been always will. It’s the best. Yeah dude.
Josh Yeah, ah, ah, cab or not cabbage patch kids Sour Bear sour patch kids there we go I got the name of those are those are up there to do Those are pretty good but the older I get I don’t do like sticky things on my teeth while anymore. Um.
Andrew I think.
Josh And did your headphones just die because I can hear myself. Ah.
Andrew So sorry about that I’m having some headphone difficulty you keep talking candy for one thing I’ll get it sorted out. Yeah.
Josh But um, well I was like I was like who was like who’s that sexy voice in your house I was like who do you have over right now you didn’t tell me about and then was like oh that’s my sexy voice. That’s what it is.
Andrew That’s funny.
Josh Nice, nice Well, ah well Andrew figures out his headphones. Um, if you haven’t had an opportunity to check out dwell yet. We. Highly recommend it. Um, it’s a great tool to help you get into god’s word and start fostering relationship with him. We don’t just read god’s word as a thing to check off our to do list. It’s a tool for relationship and. This is a great way to dive in dwell ah takes passionate people about the recorded word of god and reads it in such a way that um, kind of engages you a little bit more and draws you in and hopefully ah. It’s a jumping off point for you to dig into relationship. So if you haven’t checked out dwell yet. Um, you can check out duol at arle at this jesus lifepodcast dot com forward slash dowell this jesus life podcast dot com forward slash dwell and as always just to be transparent. Um, if you do sign up forwell um, there is a little bit of a kickback that we get. Um so we thank you for that and using our link and giving them ah giving them a checkout. But yeah, we’re also in the middle of series I don’t know where andrew is I can see him still he’s doing things and playing with his ears and. Um, smiling and giggling I think I don’t really know what’s going on maybe clementine is if you’re talking andrew I muted you so you might have to come back? Um, clementine might be like licking on his toes right now and he’s just he’s. He’s really enjoying. He’s just over there giggling. That’s all I see is just ah, a giggle and and and if you haven’t had the opportunity to see a giggle and andrew hey it’s worth it. You should get to know andrew just to see him giggle. Um, but yeah, so we’re in the middle of a series I don’t know if we have a name for it ah talking with jesus meaning with jesus. Essentially we’re going through jesus’s life ah his his life that’s recorded at least the the three years of ministry that’s recorded in the gospels and we’re just grabbing people that he interacted with and I’m just looking at jesus and those those interactions and then just the humanity of crisis. He just. Invested and was intentional in relationship and intentional as conversations with these different folks first week if you didn’t have an opportunity. We’d talk through simon and peter um, when they were none called in matthew four and in other gospel accounts as well. On no’m off top. My head. Ah, we kind of talk through that whole thing and and what does that mean and how did jesus interact with them. What do he call them to um so’ve had an opportunity check that out. Take a listen. It was a couple of weeks back also if you had an opportunity to hear our replays those have come out as well. this summer as andrew and I haven’t been able to sync up.
Josh Get podcast recorded. We kind of went through and found our favorites and we’ve been playing those so definitely check those out. They’re in there as bonus episodes to you I think Andrew’s back now I can hear him I don’t hear my sexy voice in echo any longer.
Andrew I’m back that that’s funny. All right man I have never before we get into it I know we’re going to in a minute and sorry for the headphone issues. Um.
Josh So I think he’s worth.
Andrew I Don’t feel like I’d ever be like Wow What a sexy voice in the background when I’m talking about myself. Maybe I Yeah I have low voice self-esteem or something I’ve never thought I have a bad voice also never thought I have like the best voice but maybe there’s something there I really need to dig into.
Josh A voice self eeem man. It’s funny.
Andrew You know like is my voice sexy is it not I don’t know I don’t know should 1 describe their voice that way.
Josh Ask your wife but be prepared for the truth. So yeah, if if your wife you might not want to know. So maybe you don’t ask your wife. But yeah, you gotta get that like ah, who’s the super famous dude with a deep voice. He like Narrates movies. Ah.
Andrew Right? Yeah, it How totally.
Josh Jones I think is in his name you know like a good deep hello ladies kind of voice. Um, but my my downside of my voice is is it carries or it doesn’t carry. There’s no medium ground. So either people can hear me from a.
Andrew Right? Hello Yeah yeah, man totally home. Yeah.
Josh Long ways away and they’re like Josh shut up or I’m sitting across the table for a moment. They’re like stop mumbling I can’t hear you ah and there’s just I don’t know I just feel like I talk and people just take it different ways I don’t know I can’t help you and but people also say when we talk about Jesus on the podcast that I put on a I put on a weird voice.
Andrew Do you? You just been a pastor so long that when you say Jesus I mean you say Jesus you say it man be like you’re preaching it. You know.
Josh And that hurts my feelings when they tell me that that’s what they claim but.
Josh Yeah I’m sorry I’m sorry that I love jesus more than you love Jesus those listening I think that’s really the issue I just love jesus more and he probably loves me more like John I’m the one that Jesus loves.
Andrew Ah, it’s funny I don’t know I don’t know you know maybe he does love you? Yeah more I don’t know I don’t know man maybe like does Jesus have favorites potentially he did pick a small number.
Josh I wonder I wonder sure I wonder when we get to heaven if like we’re gonna be there forever turnnity for forever or a sand but sandlot there. Ah I wonder if like we could get Jesus to rank us at some point.
Andrew Of people to hang out with fun.
Andrew Dude school yard pick you know, like dude one day we got to get Jesus into some dodge ball and be like all right your captain this is school yard pick from who all of us we want to see the exact order.
Josh Um, it’s just for like where do we and like where do we line up in the curve.
Josh That’s funny I remember I remember being in high school and them talking about heaven and me being like yeah that doesn’t interest me like if hockey is not in heaven.
Josh And then I’m like well maybe Jesus plays hockey and then I’m like I’m down at that point I’d want to go go to heaven. Well, it’s really wasn’t really I want to go to heaven I just wanted to avoid it hell that that place sounded that place sounded like it sucked. Um, really I remember them talking about is like really like but what about hockey is hockey there.
Andrew Feel like there might that’s not terrible. Yeah, oh mid I don’t know man.
Josh I’m really curious is hockey in heaven. But.
Andrew Maybe yeah, maybe if there’s like hockey combined with quiditch combined with dodgeball. You know like there’s probably awesome games if you’re it’s Harry Potter flying brooms like you know quidditch. No it was when I was too but I did watch the movies when they came out for sure.
Josh What is quiddage hello your Potter was evil when I was growing up now I’ve never read it or watched it.
Andrew I did it until yeah yeah.
Josh I’ve tried to watch the movies like I have them all. But I don’t know they just seem child. You know what else is also childish the original Star Wars I didn’t realize how hokey it was. Yeah.
Andrew What it’s hokey. Yeah, it’s super hokey but back in the day it wasn’t it wasn’t so much that way and with Harry Potter if you just skip to like the None movie then it’s actually really good. You know.
Josh Like super hokey.
Josh I Know tre one says yeah one day.
Andrew The None couple are definitely like young young kid movie style. But the people aren’t here for that Josh they’re they’re not here for the light banter about sex sex sexy voices. Yeah, they might be actually I don’t know no one.
Josh They could be I don’t know I thought you’re gonna say sex I was all when did we talk about Sex andrew.
Andrew I Just assumed That’s all you were talking about while my headphones were dying and I’m like you know, might as well include it? Yeah yeah, voices you know all the things camping sex. You know all this stuff. Um, dude nap hike.
Josh It was there just was time about sex. Yeah, what else? do you do camping.
Andrew Fish home things. No what I like hiking 1 time I got you to climb the incline and ah that was like I had a real moment where I’m like I don’t know if we’re gonna be friends after this if you’re listening.
Josh I don’t I’m not a hiker I don’t get it I don’t get people that like hiking it doesn’t make sense to me. No.
Josh Yeah I said a lot of curse words at Andrew going up the incline if you’ve never heard of the incline google incline Colorado you’ll you’ll see it. But it’s just a bunch of steps straight up a mountain and I’m not a fan of steps in general.
Andrew Ah, yes you it? Yes, it’s terrible. Yes, it’s it’s one mile and you go up like.
Andrew Twenty Five hundred feet or some insane amount over one mile. So it’s like in portions. It’s like you got to use it like hands and feet to like stay on the incline like it’s dangerous and it’s hard. Oh yeah.
Josh And it wasn’t.
Josh I hear I hear it’s a lot nicer these days they kind of rebuilt the whole thing over covid and you have to get a reservation now to get on and say like limit how many people go up the mountain but um, like when we did it. It was like on a whim I want to say we’re at a friends like music thing the night before
Andrew What that’s lame. Yeah yeah, ah here.
Josh And we’re like let’s do the incline in the morning and somehow we all agreed and then I’m at a mountain at six o’clock in the morning thinking to myself. Why the hell did I say yes to this? what a miserable experience. But I’ve done it. It’s over the chances of me ever doing in slim to none.
Andrew Ah, dude. Ah yeah I remember yes slim you have climbed it. You did it. You did it all the way. But yeah, when we hit that false summit.
Josh But I can say I have climbed the incline.
Andrew And that last steepest junk I was like Josh is going to kill me and we’re not going to be friends after this, but when you get there, you’re just committed. You’re like there’s no way off the incline at this point like I am just gonna go up I guess but yep man.
Josh Yeah, well and then and then you get up there and you’re like what do you mean? I have to walk back down like there’s no, there’s no ride up here. There’s no tram system I have to walk down another trail. Are you kidding me? Ah, it was much easier than the incline itself. But.
Andrew Yeah, and.
Andrew But yeah, yeah, that’s right and that you know that reminds me of Nicodemus Josh going down a hill is easier than up a hill. No, it doesn’t at all. It doesn’t at all. But um, how do you think we should do this because we’re talking about like we’re continuing that.
Josh Going down a hill much easier than going up a hill that’s for sure.
Josh Make this connection make it make that connection.
Andrew Kind of relationship series but talking about how Jesus interacted with people and how he treated people like what their relationships were like so I think you said this already. But this is our our none episode last time we talked about when Simon and Andrew were called. To follow Jesus and become disciples of his and Nicodemus is the next one up and this one’s a lot different because Nicodemus was one of the pharisees and I think he was head pharisee when this happened so he was like. The teacher of Israel like he was the spiritual authority um, at the time so kind of a cool kind of a cool one. We’ll go through but what do you think Josh should we like read this story should we do you want to summarize like how do you see this going.
Josh Ah, yeah, why don’t you kind of read that None chunk found in John and then maybe we can talk about who Nicodemus was a little bit more and maybe kind of his mindset and then how did Jesus interact with them.
Andrew Cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right? cool. Yeah, this is out of John chapter 3 starting verse one I think so it goes like this. Now. There was a pharisee a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said rabbi we know that you are a teacher who has come from god for no one could perform the signs you are doing if god were not with him jesus replied. Very truly I tell you no one can see the kingdom of god unless they are born again. How can someone be born again when they are old Nicodemus asked surely. They cannot enter a none time into their mother’s womb and be born Jesus answered very truly I tell you. No one can enter the kingdom of god unless they are born of water in the spirit flesh gives birth to flesh and spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised by me saying you must be born again. The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going so it is with everyone born in the spirit I’m going to keep going a little bit more. How can this be Nicodemus asked. You are Israel’s teacher said Jesus and you do not understand these things very truly I tell you. We speak of what we know and we testify of what we have seen but still, you people do not accept our Testimony I’ve spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things. No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven. The son of man just as moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness. So the son of man must be lifted up so that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him I’m going to pause there and we’ll save some of the the scripture that everybody’s probably going to know John 163 but yeah man, what? Ah, where do you want to take it from there. How do you want to talk about nicodemus a little bit.
Josh Yeah, like um nicodem is being one of the primary teachers in this part of Israel at the time. Um, highly highly favored with the jewish people. Um, and at this point Jesus is already making enough of a raucus that. Ah, most of the pharisees are are wearisome of him but nicodema saw I think something a little bit different. Um and at least you know wanted to interact with Jesus was far beyond anything else that um.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Andrew Um, yeah, yeah.
Josh Some of the others were doing. It’s interesting that he came at night. Um and like picture that I don’t know if you’ve seen the the chosen yet. But there’s an episode on Nicodemus and ah, it’s like this. Um. What’s the word I don’t even know what I’m trying to say um, it’s portrayed in this way of like it’s this secret meeting they meet on this rooftop they turn off the lights and nobody will notice or see them and then they have this conversation about essentially how to be born again and and. What Jesus is about to do and kind of Jesus lays the whole thing out and even to the point where um, um, where I just stop reading it John 3 16 you know the the famous gods so of the world verse but like. Essentially he was presenting Nicodemus the gospel and gave nicodemus this opportunity for choice and now we know at this point that Nicodemus didn’t choose Jesus right? at least in the moment I can only imagine the the turmoil in the moment because I would assume he knew.
Andrew Yeah, yeah.
Josh Like he he made all the connections Jesus said the right things that kind of turned the light bulb on his head but similar to the rich young ruler right? like Nicodemus is going to have to leave his entire life to do this? Um, he was going to have to leave his position of authority he was going to have to leave his family.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Josh Who was probably used to this comfortable life and um had this choice now we know and we’ll get to these verses a little bit later on but we know that nickcodemus does come around. Um, he does start to follow Jesus in secret or at least he was falling Jesus in secret. Um. As we find him you know, taking care of Jesus’ ‘ body after the death. But yeah, that’s my my initial thoughts I just think of like I read these verses with a lot of compassion on Jesus’s part where he understands and he’s trying to um.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Josh Portray this in such a way that Nicodemus is willing to to leave it all but the heartbreak in the midst of that when he chooses not to and um yeah I think there’s just a lot of emotion going on that we probably glance right over and don’t even read most of the time because we know this story right? like.
Andrew Yeah, yeah, and I think if you’ve if you’ve been in the like church for very long. You’ve probably heard a lot of like how Jesus talked about pharisees and what he said to them like you can think of.
Andrew What he calls them whitewashed tombs or pits of but pits of snakes like he he is hardest of anyone on the religious authorities of the day. Um with good reason obviously but but in this case, Nicodemus comes as a religious authority. Like you said he does actually take the time to meet with Jesus albeit in the secret at night you know implied. It’s at at night to be kind of secretive like I don’t want to be seen as as this religious authority endorsing Jesus so I’m going to go. After the crowds are gone I’m not going to meet him in public I’m going to go behind the scenes but he still went and he opened with Rabbi which means means teacher we know that you’re a teacher who has come from god for no one could perform the signs you were doing if god was not with them. You know. So like that’s nicodemus at least believed that you know and maybe he was speaking for None or 3 other like rabbis or pharisees who also were like behind the scenes like yeah, we actually think Jesus is up to something and is sent from god. Um, and weren’t just saying like we got to take this guy out. You know he’s a threat to our power something like that. Um, so so that’s pretty cool like he’s coming from that perspective and and just that acknowledgement of like we know you’re from god we don’t know exactly what that is but we know you came from god. That’s a cool starting place and you know like Jesus is kind of hard on the guy after that in my opinion on the on the words he’s like you’re supposed to be the teacher of the people and you don’t understand the simple thing you know, but when when you’re talking about being born again. It’s.
Andrew It’s not a simple thing you know like it’s I don’t know Jesus seems to be kind of in his face. Um I’m sure in a good way and I’m sure that was in the way that nicodemus could hear it but but definitely kind of like an aggressive. Version of Jesus like dude. Do you don’t even understand these earthly things. There’s no way you’re going to understand heavenly things you know, um, what are you doing like are you even do you even lift bro. It’s kind of what he’s saying like do you even lift? Um, so I don’t know it’s ah. That is something that I this is a little bit of a tangent but it’s something I appreciate about about Jesus is that when he talks to different people. He communicates in different ways at least you know and I know there’s different authors of the books of the bible. So people. Kind of write wrote things differently. But um, but you can tell there’s intentionality in how he speaks to the person that is his audience. Um, and it’s not just this like I’m going to tell everyone the exact same thing at None time and they’re all going to hear it. He takes the time to actually communicate. The way the individual needs to hear and I guess for Nicodemus that’s pretty in your face indirect as opposed to like softer and like come follow me. We’re good. You know you’ll learn as we go. It’s more like hey dude this is a wake up call. Like you got to you got to pay attention right now because you’re not understanding and you need to understand. Um, so I don’t know man that’s my that’s my none take.
Josh What if we what if we read it differently though? Um I don’t know Jesus intention in in these things and I don’t necessarily know the tone behind it but like what if it read like um like you’re Israel’s teacher um and you don’t understand these things.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Josh Very truly I tell you like we speak of what we know we testify to what we’ve seen but still, you people do not accept our Testimony I’ve spoken to you earthly things like maybe it’s compassion that we’re reading here. Um that it’s like you don’t get it yet like my heart breaks that you don’t get it yet.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Andrew Um, yeah, yeah.
Josh Um, like I’m I’m trying like I just laid it out for you here’s the whole thing. You’ve come to me recognizing my deity because of the things that I’ve done and yet you’re not shaking your ways. You’re not shaking. You know you know the Messia is coming you you you read on it on ah on ah on a regular basis from you know. Um, the prophets and here’s is an opportunity for you and I wonder if it’s just heartbreaking and compassion that Jesus is speaking these things over nicodemus in this moment. It was enough of a either compassion or wake up call that.
Andrew Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh You know ni and ebus does come around and we find right after the resurrection in John nineteen. Um, and I’ll just read us read these verses. Um now Joseph was one of the disciples of Jesus but secretly because he feared the jewish leaders sorry I missed a verse.
Josh Later Joseph asked pilate for the body of Jesus now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus but secretly because he feared the jewish leaders with pilot’s permission he came and he took the body away he was accompanied by Nicodemus the man who earlier had visited Jesus Tonight
Josh Nicodemus brought a mixture this is crazy by the way. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and alloes and scripture made it at a point John specifically made it a point to point this out about £75 worth like I don’t know how heavy Jesus was.
Andrew That’s a lot.
Josh And know people were generally lighter back then so you’re talking potentially None as body weight of mer and alloes. Um, you know taking Jesus’s body the 2 men wrapped it with the spices and strips of linein. It was in accordance with jewish burial customs.
Andrew Um, yeah, yes.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Josh And at this place where Jesus crucified there was a garden and in the garden a new tomb in which no one had ever been laid because it was the jewish day of preparation and since the tomb was nearby. Um, they lay Jesus there like here’s this moment where. I would assume it’s it’s put into the story because it’s redemption right? It’s the redeeming part of Nicodemus’s story of here he is at um, um, the death of Christ to take care of his body and um. I’d be curious to know like what’s the story that happened up into here like did they interact again. Did you know nicodemus come around they they did it it at night they were doing it secretly. So maybe you know Nicodemus wasn’t out yet. But. Like here’s this moment of like why did Joseph ask Nicodemus um like where was what was going on there. Did they know each other was it a smaller community than we realized and people knew who was in and who was out or you know the way that Paul speaks of it later. Yeah, who is a part of the way and who wasn’t a part of the way. Um, so maybe there’s this moment of like yeah of course it was nicodemus. Um like course Nicodemus is going to perform this this burial um like who else would have been when you know Nicodemus is now part of our group kind of thing. Um I know it’s cool that like you were saying I think it’s true of god and.
Andrew Um, yeah, yeah, and then.
Josh That he meets us where we’re at no matter where it’s at he’s going to speak truth over us. We saw the same thing or we’ll see the same thing we talk about the woman at the well we talk about the adulter woman. We talk about zachaus talk about Matthew story right. God meets us in the ugliness of of our lives the destruction, the harm the the dysfunction and in the midst of that still speaks truth over us and here’s the things that are causing harm in your life I have a better way. Follow me like for god so love the world that he gave us only son whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life right? He’s giving him the way out. Um god did not send his son into the world to condemn the world but to save the world through him which is probably a weird moment that god is that Jesus talking about himself in that way like if you’re in the conversation. Weird way to say ok be okay, Jesus um, and it’s crazy too like here is here is the messiah speaking of the role of the messiah before he’s essentially out right? like he’s still telling people during this time not to.
Andrew Totally yeah.
Josh Not to share the miracles that have been performed to keep it a secret and and keep it under wraps because he’s not ready for his full-blown ministry to start yet, but here he is choosing nicodemus to share. Um, you know Gospel truth with.
Andrew Well and that’s that’s almost like ah like hey I recognize you are an authority here. You know so I’m going to give you like insider information. Essentially I’m going to lay it out real clear so you have a chance to to react you know. Like not necessarily Jesus saying you’re an authority over me. But maybe it’s him and this is all guessing obviously but maybe a Tim like given that leader level scoop of like Nicodemus I’m gonna tell you right now. What others are only guessing at you know you deserve to know what this is. And and now you have a choice you know which later he does choose obviously to follow Jesus because he’s rocking £70 £75 of mer and allo which is crazy like he said, but he’s he’s maybe probably.
Josh Wonder how got it there you think you brought a donkey wheelbarrow int carrying it who’s carrying £70 of something.
Andrew Who knows dude just a big old backpack full like hiking of Allo that couldn’t be easy to carry. But yeah man but totally totally. But.
Josh Yeah, and it probably like sloshes around a little bit and that’s a lot of work.
Andrew But I just mean maybe it’s like that part of that meeting people where they’re at speaking to people how they can hear it is like I’m just the crowd’s not around I’m going to give you the the full direct truth you know so you can hear it and you can react to it. Um I don’t know That’s my best guess.
Josh Well like I think too like like here’s Jesus speaking to Nicodemus’s pride to some extent like he called them Israel’s teacher like like you’re Israel’s teacher like how do you not understand these things. Um like I think I think that’s the beauty of.
Andrew But it’s cool. Yeah, ahhuh.
Josh Of how Jesus interacts with us is like even in the midst of our sin even the midst of our blindness. Even the midst of our stubbornness like Jesus going to meet us in those actual places to get us to where he wants us to go like that’s ah it’s a pretty incredible god that we have the opportunity to serve and and to.
Andrew Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh More importantly, be in relationship with but I’m kind of a kind of a cool cool story. Any last thoughts Andrew.
Andrew Totally man and ah yeah, this might be a short episode sorry people. Um I guess just in light of of Nicodemus. You know like it’s it’s always been easy for me to. To read this and like bash the ah person who doesn’t get it. You know and assume that I would have been one that did and and my daughter is ah is not a fan of of what I’m saying she’s letting sal know. but but I think there’s a lot of value in reading a story like this and. Putting yourself in in the shoes of the person Jesus is talking to whether they react well or poorly. Um for me, it’s always more helpful to assume I’m the None reacting poorly you know I’m the one like nicodemus hearing the direct truth and choosing to turn away from it or.
Josh You know.
Andrew Or kind of keep it under wraps for a while that I heard it um because like there’s there’s more humility in that for me and I can always do with the dose of humility even though I’d rather not um, but like yeah.
Josh Yeah, yeah.
Andrew I don’t know it’s cool. He still came around so whatever Jesus did say that’s not recorded here or what he did say that is recorded here like it stuck you know like it was it was Jesus wasn’t necessarily playing in the moment for Nicodeus to. Immediately convert and follow him as a disciple he’s like I’m gonna plant these seeds and teach you what you need to know so that down the road you become you become the follower which is pretty cool. Sorry man I got a mute because you.
Josh You know and I think too like um I had a conversation with a friend not that long ago about the pharisees in general and choosing the process of reading a book and she said you know I’ve never actually had compassion for the pharisees I never got it. And the realization she came to is you know here are the pharisees and in Jesus is publicly rebuke him on numerous occasions throughout the gospels but it was they they didn’t know any better like you’re asking them to completely change their framework and their worldview. Of what is of course they were going to be defensive. Of course you know they were the they were the religious truth like we know these types of individuals now when when what we assume to be doctrinal truth is starting to be questioned right? We we rear up, we protect it. Feel like it’s our job to protect. You know the word of god that it can’t stand on its own. Um rather than you know god is more than capable of protecting his own recorded words I think there’s that piece of it too and and I think the lesson that can be learned here is like however you supposed to help people find Jesus. If. You’re not able to have compassion on where they’re at um and I think that’s a ah key like something we say often around our Hill City circles is um, like I’m trying to think exactly how we put it? Um, but as we’reng with individuals and we’re seeing their life play out and um. The the line that often comes up is man I have such a better way right? You like you don’t have to turmoil. You don’t have to spin your wheels. You don’t have to keep coming back to these same places like I have a better way for you. Um, and our better way is with is relationship of Jesus, not just through salvation but the continued relationship that is fostered um that. The fact that it is the living water that you’ll never thirst from the fact that it’s you know the um, the manna from the father that um, you know Jesus speaks of him who says I I have food. You guys don’t know about that sustains me right? It’s relationship like that’s the food that Jesus is is commenting on. It’s not. Actual food. It’s the same um you know relationship that he relied on through you know his forty days of fasting and his temptation by the the enemy um in the beginning of his ministry like there’s there’s power in that relationship and it’s power that we don’t um, necessarily ah. Connect with on a regular basis right? like um statistics tell us I think it’s somewhere on like None to 20% of christians actually spend any time practicing spiritual disciplines in terms of prayer and and reading of god’s word. Um.
Josh And then you even look at that and you can do those things and check those things off your list but not foster relationship in the midst of those things like I know a plenty of people in my life that do read their bible every day. Um, but it’s not for a relationship. It’s to to I don’t know say they’re a good Christian to. Ah, feel like they’ve done the right thing to think there’s some magical power in reading it? Um, but if it’s not foster relationship and relationships conversation right? like scriptures should be a jumping off point for conversation conversation about where you’re at conversation to where God wants you to go conversation of truth God’s trying to help you understand and learn conversation of.
Josh Insecurities and flaws and sin that are a part of your life that god wants to start to deal with and and get to the root of those things causing it to to push them out. Um, its relationship. It’s it’s getting back to that conversation and there’s power in it and I don’t say that just you know jestly or um, like. I’ve lived it for the last None years like I’m telling you. There’s there’s power in that relationship like I got disappointing news this week that I was telling Andrew about earlier and like it was a blow um and it was like a couple of things you know back to back and it was a blow and um I didn’t want to.
Andrew Um, yeah, yeah.
Josh Participated in community or relationship or anything like that in the moment but um I’d spent some time with Jesus that night spent some more time with Jesus in the morning talking about the emotions the fears. The everything that that’s wound up in that. Um, the way that you feel you know slighted or or whatever else and get it all out.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Josh Um, and then refocus back on who Jesus is and what Jesus has done and you know it’s those breakthrough moments that you’re like okay I’m good I’m good now I get it. Um like this is fine. It’s not a big deal. It’s not you know as devastating as you think it is and that’s that’s okay, but it comes back to.
Andrew Yes, yeah.
Andrew Um, yeah.
Josh Are you willing to take the time to foster relation because most of us just shut down the second life gets hard. We we isolate. We isolate from God and we isolate from people the two things that we shouldn’t be isolating from when life is hard but it’s easier that way we just it’s easier to throw away relationship than it is to lean in you know.
Andrew Um, yeah, right. Who.
Josh More intently when it when we need to. But yeah I think I think it’s a big piece and um, you know as we allow God to do the work inside of us that he desires to do and we learned how to have compassion on the people that we’re interacting with that. We’re looking at and saying man.
Andrew Right? right? yeah.
Josh Not out of pride but out of compassion and saying I have a better way for you like you don’t have to struggle like this and it’s the same thing here with Nicodemus as Jesus saying he’s like I have a better way from you like the messiah is here. It’s about to all change like don’t miss this opportunity and you know he missed this opportunity but but thank you you.
Andrew Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh Ah, we really John 19 and thankfully he came back around at some point along the way it’d be cool to hear those stories at some point.
Andrew Yeah, he didn’t miss it in the long run you know, yeah and dude that was the last kind of point I wanted to make as you were talking about spiritual disciplines and like the percentages and all that it’s easy to hear that and and get discouraged. Um, it’s also if you are somebody practicing spiritual disciplines and like spending time with god. It’s easy to hear that and be like wow like I’m already in the top you know I’m already I’m doing It’s so good like it’s easy to get prideful in that. Um, and. And the better response is just like hey it’s it’s a long journey. You know it’s a long haul. Um Nicodemus had this moment face-to-face interaction with Jesus didn’t choose to switch up his life in the moment and follow him in the long run though he did and. That’s the reality is it is a long game. You know like relationship with Jesus calling yourself a follower of Christ like it’s not a It’s not a one day activity if you’re still living and breathing if you’re hearing this podcast. Um you still have room to grow. Josh and I still have a lot of room to grow in in following Christ like in trying to live like Jesus lived um, there’s a lot. He wants to teach us. There’s a lot that that we have to learn and um and it’s a long haul. You know it’s not about a conversion and and you’re good. Like punching your ticket to heaven. It is like Josh was talking about where will there be hockey in heaven or not, you know it’s not about that in the moment it’s ah it’s like live in the kingdom today here and now in in the greatest capacity that you can and over time. Maybe that capacity increases. Maybe it decreases but it’s about it is about the journey like it’s a long haul and life is is a team sport. We always talk about doing it together doing it with people that love you and love Jesus? um, and and and it’s it’s meant to be a team sport. You know. It’s it’s not something you do alone. So anyway, ah man my my girls cried again. Sorry about that Josh I gotta be None more time my friend but that was my final a point. Yeah yeah.
Josh Oh good. You. It’s great and you know if you had now the opportunity to read back through the gospels and just watch Jesus how he interacts with with people in general like there’s power in those stories. Um, be careful, putting yourself in the stories. One of the characters. That’s that’s not the point like we’t want to put ourselves in the story as Nicodemus. We’re not nicodemus. We’re not nicodemus’ story. You know we’re we’re Josh and Andrew and we have our own stories and how god is interacting with us. But um, you can see the character of who Christ is in human form you know play out and I think there’s. There’s power in that. So if you had and the opportunity to do that to walk with Jesus through that journey I’d highly recommend it and you know dwell might be a great option for that as it reads scripture to you or you can pull open the the dwell app as well and read scripture. But if you haven’t had Martin check that out that may be a great tool to help you if not. Your paper bible but the bible you or you version bible app. There’s plenty of places to to find the the recorded word of god but remember the goal is not to read it. The goal is not to study it in this case, not that those are bad things. But um, the goal is to to foster relationships. So. Use it as a tool to kick off conversation and ask questions of Jesus and wait for his responses to those things and journal about what you’re thinking and and processing as you read through and just ah, observe how Christ interacted intentionally in relationship with those that he came in contact with and continued to speak truth but could speak truth and. You know, much grace and much love. But yeah I think that’s that’s it. Andrew Andrew is taking care of baby. Um, who is like I’m just angry I just want to go swimming dad and all that fun’s up but hey thanks for listening. As always Andrew it’s good to catch up with you. My buddy and my friend for those that have taken a listen and haven’t had the opportunity. Maybe we found you recently definitely go back. Listen to some of our older episodes when replays come up know that these are some of our favorites. Um, so it’s definitely worth a listen. Our audio did get better over the years so yeah maybe the newer episodes are better but this is episode 93 which is mind boggling hundreds right around the corner. Thanks for listening.