An issue we see often when it comes to loving God and loving people, it people’s inability to love themselves. We tackle this topic of how to love ourselves (the good and the bad) so we can love God and others and be loved by God and others in this episode.
Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just two normal dudes trying to live this Jesus’ life. My name’s Josh.
Andrew: Hey, I’m Andrew. And we are this Jesus life podcast. Josh, my man. Hey Andrew, are you doing okay,
Josh: dude? Is this our, this isn’t our, this is our first recording. Did we record last week of the new year?
Andrew: I don’t know, dude.
It felt like I have no idea what day it was. Cause I was off for a week. So it just everyday felt like Saturday. That’s true. I don’t know. But having 20, 21, all the sides
Josh: of me, I can’t remember. Happy 2021. Uh, our capital was attacked while we we’ve been gone. Uh, we won’t get into all that cause politics suck now.
Um, it was fun to really be into politics for awhile and the elections, and it’s not fun anymore. It’s just,
Andrew: it’s fun to have a phase where you care a lot. And then it’s, it’s more fun to have a phase where you’re like, um, I’m over the drama, that political theater. Yeah. It’s a crazy time. And on top of all of that too crazy, I lost another chicken.
Um, so we lost a couple of people. The Capitol, we also lost one word chicken. It’s been a rough week for everybody.
Josh: What happened to your chickens? It’s insensitive. Oh, you told me the story.
Andrew: Do you want me to tell the actual story? Do you want to tell the story on the podcast? No I told you on the phone. Cause I had to tell you, I had to tell somebody
Josh: that’s a pretty poor one. There was a chicken and lost his head.
We’ll just say that.
Andrew: All I’m going to say is a chicken somehow got stuck in the fence and a cat or Bobcat or Fox noticed and ate a Ted. And it’s other chicken, some of the chicken, it was a horrible scene. Every time I see them now, man, I just, I walked back there and I’m like, y’all murdering anybody today.
Like, how are you doing now? They
Josh: have a taste of blood.
Andrew: I have to fear for those chickens
Josh: you should. Yeah. Like, and they like walked all over. Like they didn’t even care. They’re just like, I’ll let you see where I put my blood.
Andrew: They didn’t care at all, dude. They were just like pet tasted.
Josh: I have some more, let them get a taste of human blood.
Then you’re gonna be worried about. That’d
Andrew: be real bad. Yeah. So yeah, people, if you’re thinking about going vegetarian, just know that chickens are happy to eat their own friends and family, any chance they get
Josh: don’t about that? About air. Like some kid gets in a ton of trouble cause he fed a chicken strip to a chicken and they’re like, Oh, you can’t do that.
Come to find out they make it. So I really like it. Okay. Andrew got a question for you. Yeah. Yeah. What’s the other explore space or the ocean
Andrew: hoof. That’s a good one. Um, I think I would rather explore the ocean. Not necessarily. I wouldn’t be that interested in going like. 15,000 feet under water, I’d be really interested in like, okay, could we take a sweet little vessel and go find crazy caves and that type of stuff versus space where it’s just like, feel like everything’s so far apart in space, you know,
Josh: just doesn’t seem as, I think I’d rather be in space.
Just because like, we don’t share what’s in space yet, so I could just assume there’s nothing in space. We know the bad things that live in the ocean and I want to go near them. Like, even if I’m in a summary, like, no, thank you. I don’t want to go face to face with a ginormous squid or a shark. No. Yeah. I’d rather be a blue, like a
Andrew: whale popping up out of nowhere would be terrifying, dude, like 160 foot or no, there, they get up to like a hundred feet long blue whales do their tongues way as much as elephants do.
Like they’re huge. So even just have some, just like come out of like,
Josh: dude, I stopped there. Uh, grand theft, auto five, I think GCA five. Uh, I used to play a lot and uh, There are sharks in the ocean and like other creatures that live in the ocean and I can’t do it. No, like I stopped going in the ocean, please scared me.
Like, yeah. And they even like notify you. There’s like a little red dot that shows up on the map. That’s even more terrifying. And then, you know, you’re not alone. And that’s a video game, not getting in the game’s not going to happen. We, uh,
Andrew: he might’ve changed.
Josh: We did a cave tour. I don’t know this last week.
And, uh, we got to some point in the cave, they turned off all the lights and there’s just pitch black dark, uh, and like all the things your mind plays on you. Like, you literally can’t see a thing, but your mind thinks you can. So like you start to see shapes, but there is no actual shapes because it’s freaking.
Dark, but that’s what I picture at the bottom of the sea. It’s just going to be dark.
Andrew: Yeah, that sounds terrifying. Yeah. So I don’t know, dude, I don’t think either would be fun. Let’s be
Josh: real. Um, the space to be kind of cool to be in a place where it’s like ultimate silence. Just nothing to be kind of a weird feeling.
Andrew: And there’s a lot of Christians who believe that that space is actually just water that we live in a firmament. We basically live in a bubble and there’s water. This is the Bible waters above waters below. So there’s a lot of people who believe there’s a barrier and then water.
Josh: Um, you know, there’s also water in our atmosphere, so there’s that piece to it too.
Andrew: but wouldn’t it be crazy if that’s true, if that’s right. Well, there’s also
Josh: some people that think that we’re in a planetarium, looking things, sitting on it somebody’s, you know, God’s table in his dining room. That’s true. So there’s that piece too. Uh, now, I mean, believe in aliens, I’m not. Like, I’m not, I wouldn’t be shocked if there was aliens.
Like God’s been around a long time who says he has, you know, created other things.
Andrew: Yeah. As far as I’m aware, the Bible does not, actually I know the Bible, doesn’t say you’re the only beings he made, you know? So that’s
Josh: true. There’s some believe that Adam and Eve, weren’t the only people he created. And that’s how society spread.
It. Didn’t spread just from Adam and Eve that he used. That’s just the story that God chose to tell a prescription, but he created other beings as well.
Andrew: We’ll find out one day until then. I think we should speculate wildly.
Josh: my response to all those debates is like, does it really matter? No. Yeah. If we can agree, God created the rest of it. Doesn’t matter. Yeah.
Andrew: Let’s keep going from there. Josh, would you rather, all of your clothes tickle you or that you, you fart all the time when you’re around people, like just kind of a constant stream of audible and stinky
Oh, the instinct. Yeah. Yeah. Those both suck. I’d rather go with ticklish clothing, I guess, but I’m not really ticklish. You led the only place I’m ticklish is on my ears. Uh, that’s funny. I won’t tell you why. I know that, but that’s the only place I’m ticklish in general. I’m not really a ticklish person.
Weird. Would your, would your clothes feel like tiny little fingers, just constantly touching you, like trying to like picture what the sensation feels like.
Andrew: I probably actually have like some sort of skin disorder or nerve disorder or something, but all your clothes he had just kind of feel like teaching, like real light
Josh: you like the best position you could be in?
It’s just naked all the time, which in today’s society might be a good enough excuse to be allowed to be naked all the time. Yeah. Yeah, that’s fair. And then I would argue that you’re more Holy and godly if you’re naked because sitting clothed this. So there’s that piece too, because sin go down that route.
Yeah. They can’t tell me what I feel or don’t feel. That’s good answer. That’s good. And I think it’s an argument. Would you rather, Andrew win the lottery of like we’re talking billion dollar lottery, biggest it’s ever been okay. Or live twice as long.
Andrew: Dang. That’s rough because twice as long and everybody, you know, is going to die, right? Like you kind of outlive everybody lottery and everybody, you know, a lot of people, you know, are going to be like, I’m going to get mine, you know, like trying to twist your arm. Like, I think I’d take a lot out, actually.
I think I’d take the lotto and I would just try to do good things with the money and be like, whatever, not
Josh: everybody’s my friend. Good things with the money. I do some good things with the money. And then I do straight up selfish things with the money, just
Andrew: get that 10% given. And then it’s all about self.
Josh: And then probably some like vindictive things with the money. Cause she got money and money talks. I probably like if I want a billion dollars, man, what would I buy? I probably buy like, Like my own like mercenary squad, just for fun. Just to save, you have your own, you have your own army and you’d be like any good conservative.
You’d have a huge army, but you wouldn’t send it anywhere. Um, so I just have it for show. They’re just like Josh has an army. I don’t know
Andrew: how many enough me I might take over Canada if I could. I’d just be like, why not? It’s just Canada, at least one of the territories, you
Josh: know? And you just name it, Andrew land?
No, I just, because you’d have to name it after yourself. Like guaranteed. You have to keep the tire, like you can’t keep the name candida and then not have,
Andrew: but I’d probably be,
Josh: I feel like played with our economy a little bit and see what you can do.
Andrew: I just try to like produce as much maple syrup as possible, you know, like,
Josh: that’d be your only horses.
We just we’re here for the maple syrup. Not even the word, just maple syrup.
Andrew: No. Okay. I don’t think I’d take over Canada, but I wouldn’t try to get like, even like, I guess we’re
Josh: choppers Venezuela. Mine. If I get an army,
Andrew: I don’t think I want an army. I think I just want like a hundred acres on awesome land with a river, maybe a Lake in there, like all kinds of good stuff. Maybe I thought I had that been an
Josh: Island. If I was rich enough, I’m buying me an Island. I want to know.
Andrew: Yeah. Dang. All right. That’s fair. If you
Josh: could certainly buy land and I buy an Island and we’d go visit each other and we get best of both worlds.
Andrew: Do you have a small army? I have a small army together. We take over Canada, you know, or yeah, for both sides. Yeah.
Josh: I’ll take, I’ll take the, the West. You take the East because yeah, just seems easier. They all speak English. One on the West. Yeah. Yeah. You can have the French,
Andrew: the French, and all immediately make the only language you’re allowed to speak.
Josh: for all the, you can’t even speak.
It’s so funny.
Andrew: Yeah, like leaders can speak in English. Everybody else speaks. I don’t know. That’s just, um, but to make the fridge
Josh: people’s charge. So like, you can make whatever rules you want. Like it’s up to you, you roll with an iron
Andrew: fist, like Jesus iron fist. Yeah,
dude. Um, so we have been going for a while on season two. Talking about first Corinthians 13 and love. And we’re wrapping that up. Tell the people about it, man. What
Josh: are we doing here with it? God. Is that about sex? That song
Andrew: probably. Is that the argument I bet
Josh: what’s love got to do is just sex. Is that the argument?
Yeah, probably to the lyrics. I just know that part of the song,
Andrew: which that’s so wrong, by the way it’s totally wrong. Sex is, yeah, we’ll talk. We should talk more about sex sometime, but it’s not a. It’s not, I don’t know. It’s all about producing children, basically. Edit is supposed to be done within the confines of, of marriage and love songs, man songs.
Josh: Yeah. I watched a video, um, because it, dude on YouTube, I follow that has been like doing documentary videos on the Hasidic Jews and kind of their lifestyle and this and that. And he just talked to a rabbi that teaches. Uh, premarital counseling and how to have sex. Um, and then, but he talked a lot about intimacy and then the difference between the two, uh, it’s like an hour long, but solid materials.
Like, man, this is good stuff. Uh, but his argument was, there’s no intimacy left and in our society, it’s all gone. And this is what we have so many problems.
Andrew: Wow. Well, that’s what we’re here to find, to solve the problem of intimacy. That’s what this podcast was created for.
Josh: I think so that’s our shit. And it’s just a sex podcast.
Andrew: Tag will
Josh: send us their sex
Andrew: videos and we critique them. No, I’m out. I’m out. I’m done. This is my last episode of this Jesus’ life has got a good
Josh: run. How’s Shoghi would that be like. Or podcasts for the first time, like, Oh geez, this sounds kind of cool. Pull it up. I guess we’d have to become a video podcast at that point or,
Andrew: Oh my gosh.
That would be very messy. That’d be very messed up. If you’re listing
Josh: really bad at dice. Yeah, yeah.
Josh: bad would make you more or less. It’s all about the lessons. So, so was that
Andrew: that’s right? Yeah. But what are we doing
Josh: going through this whole, this whole season where we’ve been talking about loving, right.
One another, and we’ve been looking at first Corinthians 13 as our guide to how we love one another. Well, um, and you’ve probably heard those verses before. Love is patient love is kind, it doesn’t, I mean, it doesn’t boast, um, probably read at a wedding, um, cause that’s where they usually read. Uh, but our argument is, this is just love between, you know, a couple.
This is love and. And how we’re just supposed to love everyone. Um, how you’re supposed to love your friends, your, your children, those who come in contact with your coworkers. This was the statement of love. And we got to those verses by, um, looking at what Jesus commanded us to do as followers of Jesus, who said, love the Lord, your God, with all our heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and love your neighbor as yourself.
Those are the two greatest commandments. And not only that, the entire old Testament, the law and the prophets. Hang on those two commandment. Um, so our argument is, well, God is all about relationship and he wants to be in relationship with us so much so that he sent his son Jesus to die on the cross, uh, for us to restore relationship and the forgiveness of sins.
And so that relationship can be restored and then he expects us to live in you in a unity with one another. Um, and to do that, well, you have to live in these love versus you have to be patient. You have to be humble. Um, you have to protect, you have to choose relationship over anything else, not easy. Um, and I think that’s probably the biggest key that came out of the last handful of episodes is as we worked through this, um, Definitely not an easy life, but a life that is fulfilling.
And I think we get to it. I think we said this last episode, the episode before, you know, for me, I want to live the John 10, 10 life. I want to have a life to the full. I want to have a life where I’m just blown away by how God uses me and what God does inside of me. And we’ve come to the conclusion that that’s done inside of relationship and relationship with one another and relationship with God is where we find the full abundant life of Christ.
And that’s how we kind of worked through, I think it’s the last. It was the last 13 episodes. So if you want to go back, you’re just joining us now. Um, go back to episode 21, I think is when we started this, this, uh, this series, um, and dig into it as you true. Choose to love people well, and how to do it well.
Uh, but we learned halfway through that is man. What about the people that don’t love themselves at least to some S some level, um, Then they find it really difficult to be loved and then also to love because there’s just not even a love for them. Um, and it’s a rough place to live inside of. So that’s kind of where we’re headed next.
Um, over the next handful of episodes, um, we just want to dig into how do we love ourselves well, and what does that look like and how do we do it in a healthy manner and not a you and Amanda that becomes so self focused herself. Um, uh, grandizing. If you want to go that route, um, like how do we keep a healthy balance, but still love ourselves or find value in ourselves or not beat ourselves up constantly because we suck as human beings.
Andrew: Yup. And dude, I was just thinking, as you were talking, like to love yourself well in our society, right in America in 2021 now, um, Like it’s, uh, it’s kind of an uphill battle if you’re just starting out and trying to figure out how do I actually love myself. Um, and I say it’s an uphill battle because I feel like there’s a lot of, uh, I think there’s a lot of external forces, um, who say, this is how you love yourself.
If you buy this thing, if you come on this vacation, if you do this thing, so they kind of take like this, you deserve a break, you deserve luxury, you deserve the best tasting food. You deserve the best whiskey. You deserve, whatever, you know, like you deserve this material answer. And that’s like, the start is like, if you want to be happy, if you care about yourself, Of course, you’re going to tend to spend 10 grand and go on this amazing vacation.
Of course, you’re going to, I don’t know, buy the super fancy whiskey or truck, or I don’t know. I don’t know why I keep coming back to whiskey, but this, like, you deserve the best. Always, you know, you deserve the newest iPhone, you deserve the newest whatever. Um, and that’s always like the, Hey, if you want to treat yourself well, You can just got to go get this product.
You got to go do this experience. And it’s all about material things often, or there’s at least a lot of voices who want to prescribe that as the answer of, Oh, to be happy to love yourself. Well, to care about yourself. Do this, buy this, go there, uh, be with these people, be with that, or post this on Instagram, post this on Facebook, Snapchat, Tik, TOK, wherever you are, wherever the people care about.
You’ve got to get a lot of likes, you know, and this is how to do it. So I think that maybe we live in a society who values, who has a lot of, we have a lot of messaging coming in about the material, things that are going to make us feel. Better make us feel more whole or look better or whatever that just isn’t.
I just think loving yourself has nothing to do with the material things as a starting basis. And I’m pretty sure our society has a lot of interests that push. It’s about the material it’s about this, that, that then kind of pushed people away from what it actually means to love themselves, to begin with.
So what do you think about that? I know that was unscripted from kind of what we wrote out for this show to be about.
Josh: Yeah, definitely. True. I think, um, I think that’s a. Because of a deeper issue, um, because you don’t have a love for yourself or you don’t feel satisfied in the love. You feel this need to find a bunch of things and fill that hole or fill that gap.
Um, so it’s wallets, it’s this next craze or this next item or this next type of relationship or this next program that’s going to help me, uh, love myself. Well, um, Or make me happy is probably a better way to say that. Uh, and I think that’s where we get ourselves into, into some trouble. Um, I’m not sure.
I’m not sure that was God’s plan.
Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree. Um, yeah, I mean, talking about this, like the idea of loving well from a place of loving yourself, I think is a. I think as a real concept, um, like I think it matters. Like, I don’t think you can be in deep long-term relationships. Well, unless you at least kind of love yourself to the point of like, This is who I am, or this is most of who I am like, knowing that well, figuring that out well, which we’ve talked about different ways to figure out and like spot blind spots.
And we’ve, we’ve tried to be really practical through this whole thing of what does it mean to love others and love God well, but to love yourself. Well, uh, if you don’t currently love yourself, well, might be a hard jump to start with, but I think it’s important because like, If you can’t love yourself.
Well, it’s hard to love others at all, or very well, I should say so. I don’t know, man. What opening thoughts do you have on that?
Josh: Yeah, I think, I think there’s a delicate balance between cause self love. Like that’s a, that’s a term that our society has grabbed onto you and, um, you see it throughout, um, even a variety of different religions.
You see this idea of self love, um, and. When we read through scripture, um, the, I think the biggest message that we see coming out of it, uh, from God is like, um, how do we say this without him? You’re nothing. Maybe is a way to say it. Um, So it’s so for Christianity, it’s usually like, it’s deny yourself, it’s humble yourself.
It’s um, put others before yourself. Uh, it’s all these things that, um, uh, essentially can be interpreted as don’t value you. Um, like you don’t have any value you’re not important. Um, and it’s not, I don’t think that’s God’s intention. Um, I think that’s how we interpreted what, what God has inspired. Um, Like healthy self love is important.
And I think even implied by Jesus, um, like when he says, love your neighbor as yourself, there was an employee, like, there’s an understanding that you do love yourself already, right? Like you love yourself so much that you can use that as the standard and the level in which you love other people. Um, and I think that’s where we get ourselves in trouble because, um, maybe don’t feel like you.
You can love yourself for a variety of different reasons. Um, this conversation is hard for me, um, because I don’t feel like I’m someone that doesn’t love themselves. Well, like I don’t, I don’t feel, I, I struggle with, I’m not valuable. I’m not loved. I’m not known. I don’t, I don’t feel like those are issues of mine.
Um, so it’s hard for me to relate to those that have those struggles, um, and. Yeah, I was just typing down notes here. Like what, what does it mean to have self love, but not take that love and to self focus or it all becomes about me or self-absorbed I think is the word you used earlier. Um, and then there’s a balance to that.
Like, yes, you have to have a standard of. Of of love for yourself. So you can love others and let others love you. Um, but at the same time, um, you don’t want to take that so far that it becomes about you because it’s not about you. Right? Right. I think that’s important, but I’ve been writing these things down.
So like, I think self-love is this, there’s an understanding if you love yourself. Well, there’s an understanding that you’re valued, that you are loved and that you are known. Um, and I would argue, these are the three things that come from God. He’s valued. You, he knows you and he loves you. He knows you so much that, um, I don’t know if it’s in Matthew, pretty sure it’s in Luke where he talks about, you know, uh, God knows the number of hairs on your head.
That’s how much he knows you. Um, like there’s nothing about you that he does not understand. There’s nothing about you. That’s abnormal to him. Um, or. Unredeemable to him. So like we talk about sin and the destruction of that sin. There’s no sin that you can commit. That’s unredeemable by Jesus, his sacrifice on the cross.
Now I get that. There’s definitely parts of Christianity that helps you believe that. What you’ve done is not redeemable. And they would like you to stay in that place as long as you possibly can. That is them denying the power of the gospel and denying the power of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
That’s on them. That’s not on you. I would argue they’re in deep, ugly sin because they’re denying the power of the devil resurrection of Jesus. Well, probably in worst, sending urine by whatever you happen to do, uh, in all honesty, um, But, yeah, so you’re, you’re loved, you’re valued and you’re known by God.
Um, that is true. Uh, the other parts that’s true is you have potential and you have purpose. And I think we miss that often too. I think we often go through life that, uh, I don’t have any, like, I’ve lived up to the potential. I have, I got nothing else inside of me. And the gospel would argue differently that with Jesus, all things are possible.
Now, not all your dreams, not all your ambitions are possible. Um, but bigger things than you’re currently doing are possible in the S for the sake of the kingdom and for the sake of the gospel. Um, and then you also have a purpose. There’s a reason that you’re still around those reasons you still exist.
There’s a reason you saw a breath, um, is because Jesus still wants to use you in something in some way. Um, and I think, uh, I’ve pushed away from you have a calling, you have a purpose on your life. Um, just because I know a lot of people that struggle with that and they’re like, I don’t, like, that’s not a thing and, or they’ve put in so much emphasis on it and they can’t figure out what it is that they feel useless or unvalued.
Um, yeah, that’s true. It’s still true like that. Like, God does have potential for you. There is a purpose or your life, and that’s the beauty of the gospel and how it transforms and changes us. And because of what Jesus did on the cross. Um, like we have new life, we’re a new creation. Anything is possible.
And the belief that if you’re still alive, your best days are still ahead of you. If you choose to chase after that potential, now we can squander it. We can choose not to invest in those things. That is all definitely possible. Like you are in control of your life. If you choose not to embrace, uh, the Jesus way, but.
So I think that’s a big piece of it too. So it’s that balance between how do we love ourselves? Well, but not allow our self self-love become self focus or self. Hmm. What was the other word? I forgot the session
Andrew: is what I said. Obsession. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, I agree with you at the outset of that, you said like it’s a hard conversation for you because you don’t generally feel.
Unloving towards yourself, or you don’t feel unaccepted or unvalued in general, um, which makes it maybe harder to have this discussion from the place of like, I totally understand what it’s like to not have love for myself, but, uh, as I was, as we were getting prepared for this, uh, it Romans. I didn’t know where it was.
So I Googled it. I knew it was in Romans, but Romans seven, when Paul is talking about, um, I do not do the things that I want to do. I do the things I don’t want to do, and it basically proves the law. It proves that there is sin in my life and in my heart, in my, in my desires, they are sinful and my desires aren’t always aligned to what God’s are they missed?
The Mark they’re sinful. Um, Mr. Mark God’s will. So, uh, That I do not do what I want to do. And I do what I don’t want to do, um, is basically it came to mind to me because like, Man. I’ve been frustrated with myself many times, uh, and frustrated with the things in my life that are sinful, uh, many times. And I don’t say just like the nebulous things, but like the things that I choose to do that or sinful, um, it may be in the moment I choose it and things, Oh, this is fine.
It’s not a big deal. This is whatever. But then later, Paying for it, you know, and I reflected on it and like, why do I keep making these stupid decisions? Why do I do that? Why, you know, so I, I do know what it’s like to feel frustrated with myself and with kind of who I am or part of who I am, because I don’t think, I don’t think the things that we choose to do that are sinful, that we do are who we are.
If that makes sense. I don’t think we’re more born. Like, I don’t think we’re just sinful people. I think we’re made in the image of God. Now we’re falling. We know this from the Bible. Um, I’ve been reading the story of Adam and Eve a lot to my two year old daughter. I’ve been reading like Storytime Bible and stuff.
And, uh, anyway, like we’re definitely sinful. We are fallen, but at the same time we’re made in the image of God we’re made to be. Like God and Jesus lived as one of us. And give us an example of like, you can be, you can be much more than you think you don’t have to stay in that central place. You don’t have to stay in the place of like your low self, I guess.
Uh, I’m struggling through this bit. But yeah. Um, all I’m trying to say is, I don’t think the things that we send in are just who we are. And I know what it means to feel frustrated at the sinful parts of my life. And like, why am I not just over this? Why am I not, um, through this struggle? Why am I still dealing with that sin?
I know what that’s like to be frustrated. And in those moments, it’s a lot harder, harder to be like, yeah, I really love who I am. I have real love and compassion for myself. Uh, to me, it’s, it can be easier in those moments to be like, well, I love other people, you know? Um, but I don’t love myself that much, but I think the reality is like to have a, have a real understanding of who you are.
Um, good and bad. Like what are the things you struggle with? Not that you’re going to be stuck there forever, but what do you struggle with today? What do I struggle with today? Um, and what am I good at today? Like what are my skills and gifts? I think that’s really helpful. Like you’re you were also, that was good.
The way you laid out, like kind of this you were made for a purpose. I do think people are made for purposes, but I also think. That we put way too much emphasis in general as a society on that, because then like tons of young people are walking around, like what is the one thing I’m supposed to be? What is the one thing that I’m supposed to be the best in the world at it’s like, I don’t know.
And you’re not going to know.
Josh: And I think, yeah, and I think what we also do is we connect purpose to profession. Uh, yes. And part of it pastor’s problem. Like that’s a, that’s a pastors issue because that’s the experience that we have, like our purposes align themselves to a profession, um, because there is a calling involved in that.
But, um, like there, you could have purposes that have nothing to do with your profession and that’s okay. Um, I would argue that there’s things that you do. Inside of your profession that are attached to your purpose. And that’s why you’ve been drawn to that profession. Um, but like people that love people really well and set the example of love for, for those in their circle, they live in this gift of hospitality and that’s who they are like, that’s a purpose.
Um, but that doesn’t necessarily connect to. You’ll use parts of that purpose in your, probably your profession. Cause it’s just who you are. Um, but like there’s other ways to use that purpose to its fullness and get, um, kingdom growth from it, right? Like there’s plenty of different. Purposes that you can have inside of life, that aren’t attached to a profession that define who you are, um, in that sense.
And I think that’s where we struggle a lot is like, well, I’m just, uh, I’m just an engineer. I’m just a whatever. And you’re like, no, no, no, no. Like there’s, you still have a purpose. There’s still something that you, you have to live this life for. Um, that God has uniquely gifted you in. Um, yeah. And may apply to your professional in some extent, but it doesn’t necessarily define your profession and that’s okay.
That’s 100% acceptable. Yes. And even if
Andrew: you’re, even if you’re a pastor, that’s still a job title, you know what I mean? I guess it’s still not the deep deepest part of who you are, you know? Uh that’s that we shouldn’t be just identified by what we do for work. You know, like if that’s. If you’re, if you’re real quick to say, well, I’m a lawyer, I’m a doctor, I’m a barista.
I’m a pastor, whatever, if you’re really quick to like, make that, the first thing that people know about you, um, I don’t know. That’s. Maybe you think you’re just your job and I don’t think that’s, I don’t think that’s true. I think there’s a lot of, like you said, you can absolutely be called to be a pastor.
And if you’re a pastor, I hope you recalled very distinctly because your job is a rough one and you need to remember why you were called to it because there’s going to be hard days. Um, a lot of hard days, but. I dunno, man. Uh, just a little bit of a tangent, but I just think if we’re really quick to say, I love myself fully and that’s why I am a pastor.
That’s why I’m a barista. That’s why I’m a entrepreneur, whatever. It’s like, no, that’s, that’s your job. That’s what you do. That’s not necessarily who you are. Um, it’s all I’m trying to say.
Josh: That’s good. That’s good. Do you think people, should I struggle more with the question of, uh, or thoughts of being a crappy person?
Like I’m just a crappy person I’m never going to be better, or do you think they struggle more with having thoughts that they’re. Better than they actually are in
Andrew: general. I don’t know. I don’t know. I’ve had prideful moments in my life. That’s for sure. You know, about some of those, um, and been knocked down, uh, multiple ledges, but, but I’ve also had moments of feeling down and out of like, well, I won’t be as good at that as anybody else or whatever.
Um, I don’t know. I think. In our nation in our time, maybe comparison is the, is the thing that just knocks people down ledges because man, I think depression is a huge, huge struggle for a lot of people being depressed about just a lot of things in their life. Like mental health is not great in our country right now for a lot of reasons.
But it hasn’t been that great for a long time. We’ve referenced this before, but like the, the number of, um, anti-anxiety anti-depressant pills and all those things that the pharmaceutical companies, um, sell is like mind blowing they’re on every, every Maine, every football game has a bunch of mental health commercials in there pushing different drugs for different things.
And it’s like, the market’s huge for that. Right. And I’m not saying you’re a bad person. If you. Have a, have a struggle with mental health, please don’t hear that. You’re just saying, like, I think, I think people are beat down in our society and that they maybe are farther from loving themselves than they should be.
I think like, I think having love for yourself would feel like a radical idea and a far away thought to a lot of people maybe, uh, right now, what do you think.
Josh: I’m always surprised about how often people think of how bad of a person they are. Um, yeah, it’s not like, I don’t know. No, I don’t know if I’ve been blessed in this way or just, it was how I was raised or whatever, but I, I don’t connect my identity to the sin that I commit. Hmm, um, frustrated by it. If it’s, if it’s constantly coming back and you can’t overcome, like, I I’ve experienced those feelings, but my identity has never been attached to that.
Um, I’ve felt the temptation to attach my identity identity to it. Um, but I’ve never let myself go down that road. Like I had an argument with my sister and my mom. Um, recently, um, somebody was sharing about, um, uh, a situation that happened with, with some other individuals and just how it was affecting them.
Um, and there was a validation that they were trying to get to their emotions that I wasn’t going to let them have. Um, and I was probably too harsh about it. Uh, I can be, especially on a motion picture that’s on me. I probably need to go back and apologize. Um, but, but there there’s something that happens.
Yes. Your emotions should be validated in the sense that you’re having of them. But I don’t know. I think all emotions should be validated in the sense that they’re valid emotions. And I think this is where we get in a lot of trouble in our lives. Um, I feel like I’ve been left out of a group. Is that a valid emotion?
Did it happen? Maybe it happened, but it’s a valid emotion in the sense that it should, like, it should help my identity in any way or define my identity anyway. Anyway, no, hell no. Like absolutely not. It is not emotion that you should say. This is okay to have, I mean, there’s emotion that you should fight away because it’s not helpful to you because then you’re like, well, I’m an outsider of this group.
Yeah, what are you kidding me? Right? Like that’s helpful to your identity to believe that. No, not helpful to your identity to believe that. I’m sorry. Um, okay.
Andrew: Let me, let me pause you. That may mean yourself, self obsessed a little bit. Like if your whole identity is defined by, by everybody else, not thinking of you enough, then that probably means you think of yourself way too much.
And not that you love yourself so much, but that you’re like, everything is about me. It’s like, I get it. It can feel that way, but to most other people, it is not. You gotta be okay with that. No,
Josh: it’s not. And that’s the thing is like, most people do not think about true. But that’s just the reality of it and that’s okay.
That’s, that’s the human, like, that’s just human norm. Like that’s just normal in, in humanity. Like I love Andrew. I think Andrew is a great dude, but I don’t think of Andrew that many times in a week. I think about him when we’re about to meet. I think about him when he texts me or I think about him when something pops in my head about him and I, and I text him, I’m like, and that’s normal.
That’s okay. But like to think that like, Something happened in Andrew. Wasn’t thinking about me at all times is extremely unhealthy. Um, and that’s not self-love that’s self-absorbed that’s self-focus and we’ve, we’ve gone too far the other way. Um, so like it’s this delicate balance of, yeah, you are valued.
You are loved and you are known by. By not only God, but by people, not all people, but some people and that’s okay. You have a potential and you have a purpose in this life. And that’s important to hold on to when we start to think push any further than that, uh, about things, whether it’s bad things about us, here’s the sins that I constantly commit.
Here’s the, the poor thinking that I, I constantly believe here’s the emotions that I give validation to that I shouldn’t. Um, like then we’re, we’re pushing too far into the other, other, um, or. In my case, it’s like thinking I’m better than I actually am. Um, like look at, you know, here’s, here’s, God’s, uh, gift to humanity, um, is probably where I live more than I live in the other side.
Um, of I’m a crappy person. And don’t think that often of myself, um, I do crappy things. I can definitely at times be an asshole, but they do not define who I am. And I think that’s an important lesson that we have to learn as followers of Jesus, because we can so easily go down those, those roads that are just not helpful, um, to, to anyone.
Yeah. And even those around us,
Andrew: but like, yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Go ahead. I was just going to, as you were saying that, and I know I cut you off to begin that tangent, but I, um, I don’t know if, if that kind of, what are they thinking about me mentality marks the self obsession, then the things that might Mark Love, like self-love in a healthy way.
I think probably look a lot like, um, Inviting other people in to your life and healthy way, um, like being, being vulnerable with people, but also being the same person, whether I’m talking, like, if I’m the same person, if I’m talking to you versus my wife versus somebody I just met versus when I’m on a business trip alone, like if I’m the same person through all of that, if I’m consistent, Then I think that probably shows that I, I know who I am.
Um, and I get that you talk to people differently and all of that, but like, realistically that can I consistently be the same person everywhere I am. That’s probably a decent marker. Then another one is like, um, Gratefulness, am I thankful for the things in my life that are going well? My thankful for people in my life for small things and big things like, like, do I have a sense of gratefulness in the way I look at the world or do I have a sense of like, I deserve more, I deserve better.
I should have, I should be Jeff Bezos. I should be, you know, like all of this, um, type of thinking. So I don’t know if any other thoughts come to mind of things that might be good markers of, of, uh, Of loving yourself. Well, or if you think those are terrible ones that
Josh: I just listed. I think, um, Paul’s words to the Philippians where he says, when he’s, and he’s talking about, um, God, but, but he says, um, don’t worry about anything.
It said, pray about everything, essentially ask Scott for what you need. And don’t forget to thank him for your answers. Um, kind of align with what you just said in terms of we can apply that to, to others as well. So like, um, often times relationships aren’t satisfying and you can take those too far, but relationships aren’t satisfying to what you need because you just don’t ever ask for what you need.
Right. Like, and that’s, that’s my mentality. Like I don’t ask for help. I’m pretty independent individual asking for help. Doesn’t usually come to mind. So I have to be very intentional of asking for help when I need help. Um, but on the other side of that, is are we being grateful, thanking God for what he’s given?
Are we being grateful for what we do have? Um, yeah. So maybe you don’t have a friendship where you have someone who you can call up immediately. Um, about anything. Um, well, how, how can you foster that? How can you ask for that? Um, do you have someone that’s close or maybe not close, but closer than others in your life, um, that you could reach out to and say, Hey, I’m looking for this kind of friend.
Can you be that kind of friend for me? The person that I can just. Call on a moment’s notice. Um, and you’re willing to take my call and, you know, get involved in my life in that moment. Um, but also look at the areas where you are blessed. Maybe it’s not, and this is hard to do. I get it. Gratitude is extremely difficult because we’re not grateful in the areas.
We’re not grateful. Right. But the areas we’re not grateful for the areas that we focus on. Yeah, right. I don’t have a job that, that pays all my bills that is satisfying and enjoyable. So when we try to start to talk about gratefulness, that’s all we think about. Um, we don’t look at all the other areas of our lives.
That man, look how I am blessed and how God has provided. Yeah. We just look at the areas that we’re not satisfied in, but the problem with looking there is, are not satisfied in as you just continuously repeat that cycle. Right. Let’s get back. And again, any better, if you focus in on those areas, Now, focusing on enough to know, like, what can I do to make it better?
If there is anything I can do, if there’s not, then there’s not move on. Um, but if there’s actions that you can take focus enough on it, that you can take those actions. Um, because it’s the only thing you can control, right? You can not control other people. You cannot control how they react to you or how they engage you, you can’t control any of those things.
The only thing you can control is you. And if you try to control other people, they’re going to catch on at some point and they’re going to leave you. Nobody wants to be controlled. Um, but the end of it, like you can control your actions. So in this situation, is there anything I can do or can control about myself in this situation?
How I react? How I engage? No. Okay. There’s nothing that’s out of my hands. Yeah. I’m gonna move on. Yeah. Um, if there is things, then do those things and just those things. Um, and don’t spend too much brainpower and time focusing on those things because it’s not helpful. Um, like I remember being in high school and just how to college and, you know, you’re chasing all these girls and doing whatever, and you’ve dreamed up this life in your head.
Um, at least to some extent, because let’s be honest, guys, don’t dream that far into our features and what that’s going to look like, but at least in the romantic realm. Um, but to some extent, and then, you know, there is no girl that loves me. There’s no girl that likes me. And usually it’s not that there’s no girl that likes you.
It’s girl. You like, don’t like you back. That’s right. That’s right. You can do about that. Right. And that’s what you’re holding. , it’s not helpful to your psyche. It’s not helpful to your future to hold onto it. Um, right. Like I chased a girl all through high school and a little bit out of high school, um, until we completely lost touch.
And, you know, I finally came to that realization of, Oh, this isn’t. Going to be my dream. Isn’t going to be re you know, become reality with this girl. And I wasted a lot of years because I chased the one girl, how many other girls could add a great relation chips with and built, you know, friendships and, and hopefully, you know, romance.
If I didn’t chase after just one girl the whole time, like you’re letting you know your future. At least get postponed at best. If you’re not, if you hold onto those, those dreams that just aren’t going to play out and that’s okay. Let them go. I think, you know, when, when people tell you like, have dreams, have great dreams, but hold them loosely and that matters.
And same thing with relationships have relationships invest in relationships, but hold them loosely because one they’re not yours, um, to like, They, they can leave. Like you could go even a Strat or drastic is like they could die. And if they get like that, that’s a reality. Um, and what are you going to do in that moment?
Well, if you’re holding that relationship so tight, that that was your, everything that you weren’t well-rounded enough in relationships that like, that was the one thing. And then that is taken from you. Do you know how devastating that is to your future? Like. You see this with, with married couples have been married a long, long time, and I’m not trying to downplay it.
It’s, it’s a beautiful story at the same time, but like wife dies, dad, you know, husband dies six months later because they just don’t know how to live without it. Um, so his body just gives up, uh, now is that good or bad? I don’t know. I don’t want to get into that, but like th that’s that’s reality, if that happens in your twenties.
Happens in your thirties and your body just gives up and you are, you just give up, like your body’s not old enough just to give up yet. It’s going to keep going. You’re going to keep ticking. Um, and now you’re going to live this miserable life because you can’t get past the hurt of the harm. Uh, because I held onto something so tight, like there’s gotta be, you gotta have open hands and in our dreams and in our relationships, um, For our own sanity moving forward when bad things do happen, because they’re going to happen since the rules, this world, um, like it’s still in charge, um, until Jesus returns, it’s going to be that way because we still have choice, right?
Like that’s why sin is present is humanity has a choice on how to live and we can choose evil. Just reality. It doesn’t make you evil, but you can choose evil. Um, and, and that’s the struggle that, that we live inside of so that things are going to happen to you. It’s inevitable. Um, so depending on how we hold on to things, um, invest in them deeply, put time and effort into them.
That’s important. Pull out of them as much as you can. Um, but hold them loosely because they could be gone tomorrow. I don’t even know how I got on that tangent, but I think it’s important to hear.
Andrew: It’s true. It’s true. And if you spend all of your, all of your effort and all of your time loving somebody that it isn’t you, and isn’t the Lord, then eventually you’re going to just, uh, have a God that isn’t God, maybe like in your life, you’re talking talk about less somebody else’s and God seat.
Josh: Yeah. When bad things happen when trials show up in our lives, like it just shows where we’re actually putting our trust rather in Jesus.
Andrew: Yeah. Where’s your foundation, you know, is it on the sand is on the rock. Like where is it it’s going to be shown eventually and, and you can change it when it’s not being shown.
You know, you can, that’s a beautiful thing. When that when a house foundation is built, um, it’s kinda going to stay as it is from there on, um, but we can move in shape. We could shift. So if your foundation isn’t on, uh, with the Lord right now and isn’t with, um, trust and in him, then that’s changeable right now as you’re listening to this, but.
Uh, there will come a time when, uh, when you’re going to be shaken and the foundation will be shown. There’s gonna come a time when I am, you know, and, uh, I don’t know. I think this idea of love yourself. Well, you might’ve said this already, or you might’ve just mentioned it earlier when we were talking about this, but you know, in Matthew 2237 through 40 Jesus replied, love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind.
This is the first creed and greatest commandment. The second is like, it love your neighbor as yourself. All the law and prophets, hang on these two commandments, love your neighbor as yourself. So I think that kind of implicitly shows you’re supposed to love yourself. And you’re supposed to love people around you in the same way that you love yourself.
So we can just kind of infer, Oh, if I suck at loving myself, I’m not going to be able to love anybody else that well, either I might think I’m doing a good job, but if you have a lot of hate for yourself, then you’re probably not doing a good job. And that’s probably connected because Jesus connected them.
And, uh, and he, you know, Was God incarnate. So, um, I think he hadn’t had a good idea what he was saying and why he was saying it. So anyway, I just said that to kind of prove this isn’t like some made up thing or something that we’re just trying to say, Oh, you should have love for yourself. I think it really is kind of an underpinning of like, What’s your capacity to love others?
Well, it’s probably really related to how much you have love for your yourself, who you actually
Josh: are. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and too, like if you’re, if you’re constantly needing other people to find value, If you’re constantly needing other people to find love the, to feel loved. If you’re constantly needing other people to, to feel like you’re actually known in this world.
Like you need people to validate that for you constantly. I think it’s showing a deeper issue. That’s at play here. Um, Either there isn’t a love for yourself that you’ve got to dig into, or you don’t generally believe God loves you. And you got to dig into that. Um, like either way you’ve, you’ve got to dig into something.
I think it’s a, it’s a sign of something’s wrong. Something’s not working like it was supposed to be working. Um, Because yes, people do validate us in those areas. Like we feel known by other people. We feel loved by other people. We feel valued by other people. Um, but that shouldn’t be our ultimate source for those things.
Our ultimate source, those things should be Jesus. And if we feel like we constantly aren’t getting it from people, like, I think it’s a sign that there’s something else going on that we should probably dig into in our, into our personal self. Um, and start asking Jesus some questions of like, where. You know, God, why do I constantly feel like I need this person to validate that they love me?
Um, like what, what, what am I missing? What is the misstep? What is the poor thinking? What is the bad world view that I have to adjust? Um, so when they do show it, it’s great. I’m grateful for it. It’s exciting, but I don’t constantly need it from that person all the time. Um, like I, I already feel loved and when they show me love, it’s just, it’s icing on the cake.
I’m like, how do I get to that place, Jesus, and have those hard conversations and dig into those things and ask those questions. And if you feel like you’re struggling to have those conversations with God, find those people that love Jesus and love you. Um, and let them start to facilitate that because I think there’s a barrier oftentimes that we put up between us and God.
And we’re just not hearing God speak into those areas. Because of our own junk and we need a physical voice to, to speak those things for God. Um, so we can get connected back to God. Um, I think this how the gospel works too, right? Like somebody has to tell me who Jesus is, what he did, uh, for me. Um, so I can experience Jesus, forgiveness myself, and then relationship with Jesus.
And like people play a role in those things. But if I’m constantly looking for one. Yeah, one person or one group of people that they have to be my source of love. Maybe that’s a better way to say it. They have to be my source of value. They have to be my source of where I feel known. Like something’s not clicking.
Right. Um, and it’s worth digging into, uh, to find out what that something is. So I can find that love again, um, that validation again, um, from healthy places rather than, uh, from unhealthy places or an unhealthy ways.
Andrew: And. Okay, this is me. I’m being overly simple, probably in kind of borrowing from what we’ve talked about, but if you’re sitting here listening to this and you’re like, I think I love myself really well, or I know I suck at loving myself, but I’m not sure why.
Um, you can go back and listen to, uh, our last 13 episodes on first Corinthians 13, all about love, or you can read first Corinthians 13, great. Down the attributes and ask questions about them. So, yeah. Love is patient love is kind. Am I impatient? Am I unkind? Love does not envy. Yeah. Love does not. Envy love does not boast, man.
I do. I feel envious often. Do I boast a lot. Do I brag a lot? Just treat it like that. Ask yourselves those questions and shoot, write it out. Ask yourself those Quint questions. Write those out. Um, if you don’t like writing things out, just ask your friends, ask people who love Jesus and love you in that order for your family.
You know, ask people who know you and, uh, You know, I, I don’t pretend to be 100% perfect on that checklist, but I think God’s word is constantly, uh, able to reveal things to us about our life today. Um, and our, our thoughts today, uh, through the Holy spirit in his work, um, through those words. So. Treat it that way.
Uh, it’s a great way to ask yourself questions. It’s a great way to find out. Do I love myself well in these areas? Uh, and, and can I love other people well in these areas? So, um, super practical text and, uh, I think we’re going to do at least a part two on this discussion. Maybe geared towards some more of those attributes, but, um, yeah.
Yeah. If you want an easy way to do things like me, check them out and ask those questions. They’re good ones.
Josh: Yeah. And here’s the other piece of that too. Like, I think it’s great to use as a checklist, um, in my patient with people and my kind with people I’m going, if I’m not, let’s dig into those things, but oftentimes us digging into those things thinks it’s.
We, we, we lean on this self-help side of, I have to do all the work. Yeah. And that’s the opposite of what Jesus is calling us to do. Jesus, didn’t say, Hey, once you’re saved, it’s all up to you to become sanctified. It’s all up to you to become Holy it’s all up to you to do all the right things and stop sinning.
No, that’s not what Jesus said. Like Jesus gave us a new creation. We get to live in that new creation with him. Right. We look at the great commission of, um, you know, to make disciples of all nations that ends with. And I’ll be with you always to the very end of the age. I’m not asking you to do this by yourself.
I am asking you to lean into me and let me do it for you. Um, and that’s where, or getting it right? Like use that as a checklist. Um, here are the areas that I don’t do well, and it’s not, you go fix those areas. That’s up to you. It’s like, no, it’s you have those conversations with God and let him speak into who he’s called you to be and let him deal with those things.
Like it’s not on you, it’s on you from the. The perspective of like initiate, do your part of, to engage, do the things that he’s asking you to do. Um, but at the same time, it’s not up to you to change. And I think this is where we get bogged down. And probably even to this self, this self, like we’re not self forgiving.
Um, like we beat ourselves up constantly because we just think we’re that horrible of a person. Um, but the reality is, is. Because you’re doing it on your own and yeah. On your own, you’re going to fail. I’m like we don’t have power over sin by ourselves. The power that we find over our sin is found in Jesus and our relationship with him.
Like this is where we dig into it and lean into and let him shape and mold us. Like you’re going to play a part. There’s something you’re going to do in that. Um, but it, it, isn’t up to you. And I think there’s a burden that gets lifted off of their shoulders when we realize that. Oh, it’s not, it’s not up to me.
Like Jesus is in this. Like there’s more to it. I’m like Jesus is going to help me be more patient with people. One is going to give me opportunity to do it, but two is going to teach me how to do it. And I think that’s the piece that we miss. Yeah. We often think, Oh God just gave me opportunity, opportunity to be patient with people.
And it’s up to me to figure it out. No, no, no, no. Like that’s not the life that he’s called us to. He’s called us to a life in relationship with him where he’s moving and we’re moving. It says he is going to shape us and mold us. It says he is going to sink and find us and make us Holy, not us. Um, yeah. Are part of this is can I lean into relationship with Jesus so he can mold us and shape us?
Oftentimes it’s not happening because where’s it all leading into relationship with Jesus. He’s telling us and speaking to us and challenging us and encouraging us. We’re not hearing any of it because we’re not investing into the relationship. And that’s what we miss a lot of it.
Andrew: That’ll preach, man, that’ll preach and you’re 100%, right?
Those questions are just a good place to start and it’s not up to you to solve those things. But, uh, if you’re not sure if you love yourself well or not, it’s a good place to start. Ask yourself, those questions, take it to the Lord, uh, for solutions, you know, from there to at least just a good way to identify what’s going on, where am I?
Where am I unloving in my life? And then maybe why? And when you ask God, why am I unloving? Can you help me be more loving in these ways? Can you help me
Josh: be blown away by his answer, please? I think you’re going to be like, Oh, that’s what it stems from. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, I’ll do my part there.
Andrew: Absolutely. Man
Josh: let’s go, Josh.
Hey, that’s preconceived in the series next week. We’re talking about loving ourselves. Well, and not just for the sake of loving ourselves, but for the sake of, so we can be loved by God and loved by others. Well, and we can do the same back to God and others. Um, it starts with loving or at least having a healthy view of self.
Um, so we can, we can learn, well, Jesus has called us to do. Thanks for
Andrew: listening to our show. It really means a lot to us. And we hope that it helps bring you closer in your relationship with Jesus and with other people.
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