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It Ends with You
Episode No. 35

We bring this season to an end as we finish our conversation about loving ourselves well so we can love and be loved by God and others. Without a healthy view of self, it is difficult to love God and love people.


You are valued, loved, and known.
You have potential and purpose.

Verses – 1 Corinthians 13.
Verse – John 16:33.
Verses – Revelation 3:15-16.
Resource – BestSelf Icebreaker Cards.


Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just two normal dudes trying to live this Jesus’ life. My name’s Josh. 

Andrew: Hey. I’m Andrew and we are this Jesus’ life podcast, Josh. Hello? Hello, 

Josh: Andrew. How you doing? Hello? How goes it? 

Andrew: You know, pretty good man. Pretty good. It is, uh, it’s Tuesday, Tuesday afternoon. I’m well caffeinated and I’m here with you.

No complaints. What about you? Yeah, 

Josh: I was super excited. Sorry. I’m chewing on something. I apologize to this listing. How dare you? I’m super excited when you said, Hey, I’m going to be late for the recording. Cause then I was like, I can go get coffee. So I did. So I’m enjoying my. Pour over, uh, I think it’s Nicaragua, um, loyal, maybe if not loyal somewhere else.

I don’t remember where else I have coffee from 

Andrew: some other place. Yeah, let’s kill him. We actually, we started the day, this morning I came out and, um, there’s like this much coffee in the pot. Like, you know, like four cups worth, maybe not actual cups, just cups on the side of the coffee pot. I’m like Janet.

Is that, is that still brewing to, to get paused? And she’s like, no, I brewed all of the coffee in our house. Oh no. So today has been bad caffeine day for me, because it was like, you have that I’ll drink tea. It’s okay. 

Josh: He’s just not strong enough. It doesn’t have that punch, but it smells like it does. Yeah.

Great. Good. 

Andrew: Loose-leaf Earl gray. That’s good. It’s you’re right. It’s still not like a good old Nicaraguan pour-over or yeah, it’s not all bad. It’s not as strong, but it’s still it. It’ll get you through on a no other option type 

Josh: of day. And you put a little like whiskey in it in the morning. 

Andrew: I would just say just only on workdays.

Um, a couple ounces of whiskey, um, couple ounces, half and a half. That’s it. That’s all it taken my tea. 

Josh: Oh man. Dude, we live in a crazy world. Um, yes, like our world is imploding on itself, which we knew it was going to happen. Uh, it was inevitable. Um, all, all science led to implosion. Uh, no matter who won the presidency.

And now we’re just living in that day. Um, I, uh, I’ve stopped reading your news because two things, it depresses me and it pisses me off. Uh, so nose news, no news reading. Uh, anytime soon. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, Facebook’s fine because like, my Facebook feeds are pretty curated. Like you haven’t followed a lot or start it, stop reading a lot of posts from people from a long time ago.

So, yeah. Um, that’s, that’s crazy. I think it’s worth saying this. Getting 

Andrew: one side of garden, 

Josh: chickens, a garden, and start stocking up folks.

Andrew: All right, go ahead. What were you going to say? But I’m, I’m serious, but I’m not serious, but you should get chicken for the garden. 

Josh: It’s good to have. I went grocery shopping on Sunday and there was a lot of people stocking up on, on canned foods. And like, to the point, like the lady in front of me had. Had bins like, like storage bins as she brought two pack full of her, people are freaking out, 

Andrew: um, at a minimum, get some seeds.

So you can’t grow a garden and I’m not joking. Like, I just feel like. Not that everything’s going to go off the rails, but there’s just like one it’s super cathartic because dude, I went through the phase of, of being super about the news and following like probably too closely, like you were leading into this last election.

I was doing that in the one before where it was like every day, way too focused on that. And I got to the point where I was like, Okay. Like, this is just depressing. Like this is just like bringing me down or given me anxiety at some level. Like, I’m just not going to follow this close. And then I have been trying to fill that.

I don’t know. I’ve been trying to just focus on new things. So chickens are fun to have, uh, and they give you eggs. Um, so that’s cool. I just found out that you can get a leash. Yeah. Yeah. There’s chickens can go South, but you can. I found my wife sent me a leash, like a harness that goes around them that you can take your chickens on walks with.

So I really might buy that. Um, I’m going to garden is like, dude. I don’t know if you’ve ever grown plants and stuff, but I, I love having a garden. Like I got so many tomatoes last summer. It was stinking. Awesome. And, uh, yeah, looking forward to spring to of that. 

Josh: When you said you should go get seeds, I was thinking like, all you would eat are things that came from a garden that sounds miserable.

I will say this though, no matter what, what side of the aisle you’re on, um, in your, in your views and what you’re frustrated by and lots of misinformation out there. Lots of horrible, uh, news reporting. Um, it’s just bad everywhere. Uh, I think it helps us as up Jesus take into account. Hey, where do we find?

And putting our trust and our hope for our future. Because our world can, our United States can implode on itself and, um, you can go, you know, to a socialists, you know, fascist state of, um, you know, there’s no real information getting out and all those kinds of things and you can go the other way as well.

And, um, feel. Like your world’s being taken away from you, but the reality it’s 

Andrew: time to start a revolution. The gospel, some people are, 

Josh: yeah. Yeah. The gospel, the gospel is still here. Jesus is still on his throne. Um, and you can put your hope and trust in there. Even if life completely changes for us and you have to go through that change.

And, um, you know, it’s a process, but at the same time, like it. Hope doesn’t change. Um, you look at, you know, a communist state, like, you know, China. And the church has exploded because the gospel really is hope. Um, this is what Jesus did for you to restore relationship with himself, not to give you everything won in this life.

Uh, but definitely give you a peace and a security. Um, when the world around you is falling apart. Um, so that that’s my. That’s my push to you is, um, if nothing else evaluate where you’re putting your trust in your hope, and if you’re getting terrified and freaked out, uh, of the events that have taken place over the last a week or so, or even months, if you went back that far, um, remember that your trust, your hope isn’t in our politicians, isn’t in our government.

Um, isn’t in the democracy. Um, our hope and our trust is in Jesus and Jesus alone. And if we hold onto that, Most of the things that are happening running kind of just laugh at. And you’re like, man, it’s okay. Yeah. Now there’s some things happening that you’re like, yeah, that’s going to definitely ruin our democracy.

Uh, but you know, it might’ve been, you know, as much as I want our democracy to stay intact because I think it’s better for our country. Uh, it’s also not defining for me like Jesus and my relationship with Jesus is the thing that defines. So if everything else falls apart or goes to shit, then you’re just like, well, Jesus is still Jesus.

And he’s still on this row. We’re going to be at a hundred percent. And if we put our trust and hope in that, I think you’re going to be okay. Those listening. 

Andrew: Yeah. And real practically, if you’re anything, if you’re. Anything like me or like Josh, uh, if you’re a person and you’re spending a ton of time being in, you’re breathing a human, who’s not a psychopath and you’re spending tons of time reading news and that isn’t your job, unless you’ve literally work in news or graduate or something, if you had to read every time, but like, If you don’t have to then consider cutting that in half this week and then half again the next week.

And like the, you could get by on just the headlines every once in a while. Like it, it, Jen and I, my wife and I were talking, uh, just. I don’t know, two days ago. And it’s like, you know, it can feel like we’re in the craziest time effort. Um, we’re not big. Yeah. We’re not like, think about world war one and two when like the draft was happening, multiple drafts in Vietnam and like people going and dying and just create like whole factories being switched to make bullets and clothing and like.

Oh like crazy amounts of change really fast that’s happened forever, you know, in different ways. But right now we’re so connected to everything. It feels like it’s all like right in your face. Um, but the beautiful thing about that is we can choose to be. Disconnected a little bit. Nope. Like, you know, um, just choose to take the Apple news off app off your, uh, off your home screen or whatever, or disabling notifications from it that might get you a long ways.


Josh: uh, if you haven’t noticed disabled notifications on majority of your apps at this point, like you’re losing your life. 

Andrew: Yeah. Dude. I basically only get like dings and rings from text messages and phone calls at this point, because it’s like, everything’s just drinking too much. That’s not true. 

Josh: Uh, NHL news and the NHL app still dings my phone.


Andrew: And I’m this close. I know this is controversial because I’m a Christian, but I’m this close to fully disabling all Bible app notifications. Cause it was like six yesterday and I’m like, yeah, Bible app. You’re fine, but you’re just supposed to be a black Bible. I don’t want you to be my social network and all this stuff, like leave me alone.

So anyway, man, so yeah, I’m good, but you’re you’re 100%, right? Jesus is where our hope is and he’s still on his throne. And that’s that, that changes a lot of stuff in how you view the world. That’s for sure. 

Josh: Nope. And you have to be protective on what you let in, like what you let into your sphere and what you led into them, because it’s going to change your opinion about things.

Like, let’s be honest. All of our politicians on both sides of the aisle right now are gaslighting the American public. They’re saying things that are 100% not true, uh, and ways that are. And Tyson more and more hatred for the other side, and that’s not helpful to anybody. So if you’re listening to, to those individuals, you got to stop.

It’s not helpful to you. It’s not helpful to the kingdom. It’s not helpful to creating unity with inside the church because, um, like if we don’t stay unified, you know, let’s be honest. Uh, the church is gonna be the next thing that’s attacked. Um, so if we don’t stay unified, you, you. Like that that’s the issue and we don’t unify over crazy shit cause no one wants to unify over crazy stuff, uniform over the gospel and the kingdom, crazy people doing crazy thing and chasing after conspiracy theories.

Like no, nobody wants to unify with that stuff. It’s nuts. Um, and unify over the gospel and over Jesus and we choose to agree to disagree about certain things and that’s okay. Um, but that’s what we hold on to. Like I deleted Facebook off my phone. I didn’t delete Instagram. I tried to, but then I was like, Oh, what do I do when I’m bored?

Um, and it’s Instagram because I’m not reading the news right now. So, but I deleted my Tik TOK account. I deleted Snapchat. Oh, yeah. I actually disabled all those accounts. Um, cause yeah, I don’t. Yeah. And more of it. 

Andrew: Yeah. I thought about starting to tick tock recently, and then I was like, you know what, now I’m no, I’m not doing that.


Josh: took toxin, 

Andrew: but D-Day. Something I like about Jesus. That is probably important to like about the one that you’re, you know, kind of following, uh, in that you’re saying that’s God’s son. Um, yeah, but something about him, like. I just love that in different seasons in different times. Um, Bible verses will just spring to my mind.

Didn’t I’m sure to your mind and just ring way more true. Not even way more true. Just makes sense to me in a new way, you know, and like John 1633, um, I’ve told you these things that you may have peace, but in this world you’re going to have trouble. You may have trouble, but take heart. I have overcome the world.

Just so simple. Like, Hey, I’ve told you these things, all of John, cause that’s John 16, I’ve told you all these things so that you can have some peace, you know, but take heart. And because you’re not going to have peace in this world, but I’ve overcome it already. Um, it’s already done and you can live in that reality and a pen.

I had this, I know I told you about this, Josh, but. Uh, a few days ago, um, maybe five or six days ago at this point, I was like brushing my teeth right before going to bed. And I noticed this weird bump on my stomach. I’m like, It’s super weird. And anyway, I, you know, that night, like it is a medical thing, but it’s, it’s fine.

Um, basically it’s just like what your body will do when you get an injury. Um, like covers it up and then it shrinks down and it’s okay. Um, it’s called a Simosa. Um, but I’m calling it my Samoa, like a girl scout cookie, because it’s right in that region. Um, it’s like where all my smells go. Um, yeah, they are, but.

But in that moment, like my, I told my wife and I sh I should have waited until morning, but I was like, if I don’t tell her right now that I just noticed this thing. I’m going to be freaking out. And I’m also going to feel like I’m hiding something from her, you know? And, um, anyway, so I told her, and of course she immediately was like, well, you need to up your life insurance because I’m already single parenting right now.

And not trying to get all that stuff, but, but she was freaked out and like, there’s this moment where I was like, Crap, like, do I, do I have some type of weird cancer in my stomach or kidney or abdomen or whatever? Like, is this something that, is it a tumor? So you going to kill me? What is that? 

Josh: I said 

Andrew: web MD actually just immediately recommended a funeral home.

It’s just like, here you go. Here’s a, you 

Josh: can just buy this app site to hack, right? Like you want to really screw with people heck with them and just like. Started sending them, but yeah, funeral homes are like, 

Andrew: okay. Yeah. 

Josh: Great. For a bituaries 

Andrew: maybe the one thing that breaks our nation right now is if 

Josh: somebody actually does, everyone’s getting the web MD, it’s like, Oh my toes, smell funny.

It’s like, you need a funeral home. Well, you. 

Andrew: Here’s type in your zip, zip code. We’ll recommend a few. You can pre-pay um, dude, but now I did legitimately, you know, I’m like, I’m physically pretty healthy guy. Like I don’t have that stuff happen often. And so I had just a moment of like, Crap. Like, am I actually sick in some big way?

Like, there’s something wrong with me that I didn’t know about. Um, and I immediately think of all the implications, you know, but, um, it was cool. I just, uh, I just prayed about it and I was like, God, I know you’re in control. I don’t know what that is. I’m going to find out. I am blessed that I can go to a doctor even more thankful that my sister is in the medical world and my mom, you know, so they they’re a wealth of knowledge on that stuff, but, but it was like, I I, as I think back on it, knowing what I now know about this, that it’s not a big deal.

Um, I just like, it would have been easy to go to a place of hopelessness and it would have been really easy to be freaked out and be up on a Hayden and all of those things, but like, And I’m just, I don’t say this to brag. I just say it out of thankfulness. Like my hope is in Jesus, you know, like that’s where my hope is.

So things can happen to me, to my body that I wouldn’t want, if that was a terrible thing, you know, I don’t want that. Uh, nobody does. I don’t. Wish that for anybody, but it’s like, things are going to happen. Like, don’t worry. You’re not going to have peace in this world, but take heart because Jesus has already overcome this world.

Um, and you can live in that. So I dunno, man 

Josh: perspective, right? Like, yeah. The problem, and this might be more of an American problem or a Western world problem. Um, but like we get this vision of what our feature’s going to look like in our head. And then we chase after that vision. And that’s great for ambition.

It’s great for completing goals. It’s great for being successful. Um, But what it’s not great for is what happens when that vision doesn’t come to be, or something drastically changes, uh, your life. So your future can’t be that vision. Um, and I, this kind of goes back to what we talked about last episode of like, we, we have to hold things loosely and whether that relationships or whether they’re dreams in our lives, and it’s great to have dreams.

It’s great to, but it’s also another thing of like, well, maybe that’s not the dream Jesus wanted me to have, or maybe the dream that Jesus did have for me. Isn’t going to play out the way that I thought it was going to play out. It’s going to play out this way and that’s, that’s equal to better. Um, like I think of, you know, we had a conversation before we hit record of, um, someone that, you know, that lost their job through COVID, um, and all the shutdowns and the cutbacks and all those things that happened to the economy.

And, and, um, you know, now this individual’s in even a better role, making more money with, uh, better outcomes for advancement that yeah. That would never have happened if you just gave up, like, cause that’s the other option, right? Like he could have just been. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I’m too old. I can’t find another job.

I’m done, like screw this and we’re going to go live with what’s. Uh, but instead, like, you know, you got back up, it’s the same thing with our sin, right? Like, you know, you know, Paul’s words of, I do what I don’t want to do and I don’t do what I want to do. Um, and you find yourself sending in and screwing up in that moment and.

You know, it’s easy to say, you know, woe is me. I suck as a human being this and that, but now Christianity is all about getting back up and trying again. Um, we don’t, we don’t stop. Um, I was watching a documentary this week on the lone survivor story. So that movie, um, I don’t remember who was in it. Um, but the dude that survived Afghanistan, the Navy seal.

Andrew: Oh, yeah. Uh, I, I should know 

Josh: the actual guy. Um, and he was kind of telling a story and he made a comment in there. I thought was, was brilliant, was, you know, cause they were training early on before they ever got into. The Navy seal training, um, and even Navy bootcamp to be Navy seals. Like this is what they wanted to do.

So him and his brother kind of pursued this with some kind of training regimen. Um, but he made a comment in there. He’s like, you know, if one day I failed to completing some task, you know, in my training, I couldn’t figure out, um, it wasn’t beat myself up. And, um, I’m a failure. It was no, I just. I’m gonna figure it out tomorrow.

Um, so there’s this mentality of just like, no, you got to get back up like one that’s what successful people do too. That’s what healthy people do. Like it’s not woe is me. It shouldn’t be our first response. It’s no, no, no, no. I’m going to get back up because Jesus did die for my sins. He died on the cross and this is segwaying into our conversation for today.

But you know, he did die on the cross to forgive me of those sins and restore relationship. So. There’s no sin that can hold me back. There’s no sin that can change my future. Uh, if I choose to, um, and not change your future in the small sense, but in the big sense of like, you’re still his, nothing’s going to change that.

Um, it could change your future in terms of this life, but, um, uh, there’s that piece of it, like, you know, are we just going to get back up and we can get back and try again? Um, or are we just going to give up? Um, and I think that’s where we find ourselves in a lot of trouble is I think there’s a lot of people today just giving up.

Yeah, they feel like they can’t get their dream back. They feel like they’re not worth it. They feel like they’re just too much of a failure. They feel like they just have too many problems or mental health issues going on that they can’t get their life back. Um, and I think that kind of leads into our conversation today, as we finish this up of, um, you know, how do we love ourselves well, so we can be loved by God and loved by people and then return that love as well.


Andrew: yeah man. That’s I think that’s a great. Point, and it’s a great way to segue kind of into, um, into our topic for today and people, if you’re listening. Sorry, that was, that was not our probably typical lighthearted, uh, start. Um, but I don’t know, but we just, that’s what we were talking about beforehand.

And, you know, I like one of the things, um, I’m sorry, I’m struggling with my thoughts. Cause I’m thinking. To too quickly as I speak, but you know, we’ve, we’ve talked about all these attributes of love for the last, I think 13 episodes now. Um, and, uh, through the lens of first Corinthians 15 episodes. Wow.

Through the, through the lens of first Corinthians 13 one through eight, but really I was thinking about this. We really only covered one through seven. Um, and I wonder. If we kind of talk about this idea of forgiving yourself and loving yourself by being willing to forgive yourself through verse eight, which simply says love never fails.

Um, it is like to me, that that speaks of perseverance. And when you’re looking at it from the end of how do I forgive myself so that I can love other people well and be in relationship with other people? Well, um, Love doesn’t fail. It, it continues. It is persevere. It perseveres, it pushes forward. And you know, like you were saying, it’s like, eh, it’s probably a lot easier to say.

I’m just going to give up on that dream. I’m going to give up on that person. I’m going to stop. Because I’ve pushed it and pushed. And I feel like everything is fault that the bottom has fallen out. You know, like there I’ve done all I can do I’m out, you know? But the reality is in my experience, it’s like when you, when you stopped doing something, it’s way harder to restart than it was, if you just kept going.

Um, whether you’d be physically running. Uh, for me, I was thinking about this even the other day, like. I love doing woodworking projects. I haven’t done one in like three months and I have a couple small ones to do. And to me it was like, Whoa, like, it feels like a heavy lift just to restart them. Cause I gotta get all my tools out, got to get reorganized, got to go find stuff.

All of that. But the reality is if I had just kind of kept that habit going of doing them every now and again, I’d have all my tools prepped, I’d know exactly where my things are and it’d just be plug and play, you know, get the lumber get going. Um, so I dunno, it just feels like, uh, it’s a lot harder to push to kind of restart something than it is to just keep it going.

Um, even if you’re going at a, at a light pace. So I don’t know, love never fails, like kind of. Yeah. 

Josh: There’s also this concept out there that like, you’re going to get lulls in life. Like even if you’re chasing after dreams, like you’re going to have setbacks, it’s inevitable. Whether you’re starting a business or starting a new pursuit individually, um, or starting, you know, some kind of movement, like there’s always going to be LOLs.

There’s always going to be setbacks. No one has a success story of like, Okay. Maybe Chipola up until equal. I think that’s one story where it’s like, it just worked. Yeah. 

Andrew: It’s been a huge setback though for the last four, three, four years for them. They’re just getting back on their feet. Most 

Josh: people when they’re starting out have pretty or setbacks, um, in the get-go, uh, Seth Godin, who’s a marketing guru guy.

And he might not be called that anymore. He’s kind of expanded his, his expertise, but, um, has a book called the dip. Um, and it’s this whole concept of like, most people quit when you know, you, if you kind of draw a picture, your head of, of a line and there’s a big dip in it. And then it comes back up and goes even higher than where the line started.

Most people hit, you know, hit that bottom. Of the bottom and just give up. Um, and it’s this whole concept of like, no, no, no, like that’s the point you have to keep moving because you’re about to hit the increase. Um, and I think that’s, that’s oftentimes with, with people in life, whether it’s like, you know, it’s.

Um, it’s in your car conquer in your life and you come to this place where it’s just, life is completely out of control. Um, you know, destruction is all around you because of what sin has caused. I mean, you’re at this place of like, it’s never, it can’t get any better than this, but that’s exactly what Jesus came for.

That’s exactly what Jesus went to the cross. And only that conquered the cross for, um, or conquered death for us was for that moment. In your life. Um, so you could feel, uh, the, the increase on the other side of the dip, um, like this is the beauty of Christianity compared to most, you know, ideas or thoughts out there.

This is why, um, you know, Jesus’s message is so powerful, impactful. You’re never, you’re never out, like there isn’t something you can do that, that completely, uh, nullifies your future. Like, no, you, you always have a chance to turn this thing around. You always have a chance for a better future. You always have a chance, uh, for your best days being heavy.

It’s the beauty of, of being a Christian and following Jesus’s knowing that your best days are ahead of you. If you choose to get back up. If you choose to push through the hard times and the disappointments and the way that, you know, things that work out the way you wanted them to, um, if you choose to push past those and get back up, like your best days are ahead of you, because Jesus has promises that right now, John 10, 10, I’ve come to give you life and give it to the full.

Um, he’s promised this for you, um, in this life, not just the next, um, so get back up and chase after those things, don’t let, um, disappointment, don’t let loss and I know loss is a hard one to push through, but don’t let these things, um, Redefine your future, um, because they were never designed to, um, these were just as, as you know, Andrew quoted.

Now, these were the troubles that you’re gonna face in this world. Um, but take heart because he has overcome this world. Um, you have an advocate on your side, that’s beyond anything this world could ever throw at you. Um, so embrace the advocate, 

Andrew: dude. I like that you brought up the concept of the dip. And as you were talking about that, I’m familiar with that.

I don’t know if I read the whole book or I listened to Seth Godin talk about it or what, but I’m familiar with that concept. And, um, and I’ve known about it for a while, but as you were talking about it, some things came to mind that I’ve never associated with that, um, that are wanting to. Wanting to bring up.

Cause I think this concept is kind of all over. All over the Bible in a lot of different ways. Like I thought of, um, Saul, you know, before he was Paul, um, self thought he was kinda on this perfect trajectory. He thought he was doing God’s will by pursuing Christians, killing them, um, bringing them to the courts, bringing them to the high temple, uh, the Jewish council and, and punishing them, you know, doing horrible things to Christians.

He thought that he was stamping out kind of this false religion. Inside of Judaism and he was being very zealous for his religion. That’s what he thought. And then he hits the dip where God straight up, blinds him, um, speaks to him and, and humbles him as he’s on the way to, to kill Christians. And in that moment, he could have just probably stayed blind and probably stayed broken and kind of had his last.

Uh, just lost his vision forever, but had lots and lots of thoughts of like, Oh, I thought I was serving God, but turns out I’m the worst servant ever, you know, turns out I was actually not and that’s it, you know, but God used him to spread the gospel in a crazy, crazy way. Used him to kind of. Put pen to paper or quilt to paper or whatever they first wrote on, um, you know, to write.

Um, I think like over a third of the new Testament was kind of pinned by Paul. Um, and anyway, so that’s, that’s one crazy example of like, Here’s this huge dip where you realize, no, I actually was not serving God, God revealed himself. Um, and I didn’t see it. And then boom, hit like a sledgehammer and you have a choice of, do you stay down or two, you kind of transform and say, no, I’m going to, I’m going to follow God as I knew him to be now.

And then the other one, man, that, that came to mind right away was, um, you know, like death on a cross. It was a pretty brutal way to die. It wasn’t something that was reserved for just like, um, you looked at my, my animal wrong. You looked at my, my wife wrong. So I’m going to crucify, Whoa, what 

Josh: the Romans were doing.

They looked at the animal like, like we live your wife. Is that what you’re trying to say? 

Andrew: I was trying to say 

Josh: like, people should get put on the cross 

Andrew: anyway, whatever it was saying. Yeah. I mean, I’m just trying to say it was more of like a serious, uh, breaking of the law where, you know, they, they would put people on the cross to kill them.

So it was like, it was a death penalty, but it was a big deal. So thinking about death on the cross, like. The two thieves that died the same day that Jesus, uh, died on the cross. Um, they both thought their ind was insight. Both were like, you know, going into it. I know I did this crime. I know I deserve this.

I knew the law. I broke the law. I’m going to die. I’m gonna die thief. Everybody’s going to see me die thief. Um, and the one is just. You know, and Jesus is one side spitting on him, talking bad about him. Hey, if you were, if you’re, if you’re so special, if you’re really God, take yourself down off the cross, why don’t you save me too?

You know, talking smack probably for hours. Really? Probably not for just a minute. Like we think of it in the snippet of the Bible, he’s there, um, saying, well, you’re not God either you’re going to die and you deserve it just like I do. Um, and the other one just kind of humbly. Talking to Jesus, like, Hey, I deserve this, but you don’t.

And, uh, and I’m sorry, you’re here. And that’s it. And Jesus kind of takes that in. Hey, you’re going to be with me today in paradise. You got nothing to worry about, you know? And it’s like what an extreme example of. The dip, like the lowest point in life, not just in your business, endeavor your thing, but like this, like, those are just two examples of, of life shaping moments where people were kind of presented with.

Are you going to accept things the way they are right now? Or are you going to, uh, allow your paradigm to be shifted by God? So. I don’t know, man, that might be totally off topic, but that spring to mind when you were talking about the dip. 

Josh: Yeah. And I think oftentimes we struggle in this life. We struggle one to love ourselves, to love others, to love God.

And because we’re not willing to change our perspective or what’s the word you just used our paradigm paradigm. Um, and like that’s what Christianity is. It’s changing our paradigms. Mm, exchanging how we view this life, how we view people in this life. Like that’s the sanctification process to the making you Holy process, that Jesus is taking you through this side of heaven, um, until everything is restored, um, like that’s what it is.

It’s, it’s constantly, when he says dying to yourself, it’s, it’s dying to how you understand this life. Um, how you understand that it works and it functions. It’s how you view certain things. Like that’s what you’re dying to, to take on a new identity in Jesus of a new reality. Um, and that’s what 


Andrew: think oftentimes and what you value now.

Josh: Yeah. And I think oftentimes with, with Christians, um, we miss out on it because we just, we’re not willing to change our reality. We miss out on the life that Jesus has for us. The life that, you know, you look at the, you look at people with such great faith that their life is falling around. They, they lose children early.

Um, they lose jobs, uh, prematurely. They, um, look at their life and everything that says success has been taken away from them. Uh, even when you look at the people that not even by their own doing, they, all these things are taken away from them. Um, and yet they still have hope and yet they still, um, are, uh, upbeat and ready to take onto the new challenges of the world.

Um, Like that, that’s the kind of faith that we all want where you’re like, man, that didn’t even shake him. Um, that didn’t shake him. Even an ounce of him. He probably asks questions. He probably has things he’s talking with God about. Um, but like, he’s not shaking. He’s still moving forward. Like we look at those people and we had a Myra and they were like, man, I wish I could have, but that’s, that’s embracing this new reality.

Um, as a new creation. That the struggles that you’re constantly dealing with today. And I know they feel huge. I get it. They feel immersive. It’s like we were talking about earlier. I understand the politics of, of everything going on right now. Feel huge. I understand. Cause it’s right in front of our face, it’s enveloped us completely, like it’s all around us.

Um, but when we take a few steps back, um, like we’re able to see the new reality. That sure. Who knows what happens to America in the next four to eight years? Uh, I said four to eight years, like I’m blaming Biden. I just said 48 years. That’s all 

Andrew: 20 years. Who knows?

Josh: But like, When we take a step back and be like, now, like everything has to be fine. Now it might not be fine. And how I want it to be fine. It might not be fine in terms of my life not changing at all. Um, but it’s going to be fine in the sense that my hope isn’t foundation here, my hope is foundation in Christ’s kingdom and Christ’s kingdom functions by different rules.

There’s a different authority on the throne. And this authority is pure and this authority is good and this authority is out for your best interest. And I think that’s the piece that we miss, um, because that’s not the authority we experience here on earth, right. We experienced selfish authority. That’s, that’s all in it for themselves and protecting their own self-interest, um, which causes destruction to their lives and lives around them.

Um, but now Christ Christ authority is, is perfect in all its ways. Uh, meaning it’s going to be what’s best for you in all its waves. So we choose to embrace that. We choose to hold onto that hope. Like there’s nothing this life can throw at you. Um, as terrible as the things may be, you can get through them.

As terrible as the things you’re going to feel in this life. If you’re still breathing, like you’re still here for a reason, embrace it. Find the purpose and chase after it. Like there’s, there’s something here, there’s a plan. And the purpose that, that Jesus is trying to push you towards and he wants you to experience fulfilling, um, before you take your last breath, but.

I think oftentimes we miss out on it because we’re not willing to change our paradigm. We’re not willing to change the, the view of our reality. And we get stuck in these ruts and we just can’t get out of them. So maybe that’s the question, Andrew is how do we get out of those things? Like how do we start to make those shifts?

Um, To being the new creation that you are in a new citizen that you are of the kingdom rather than of this world. 

Andrew: Dang. That is 

Josh: a, every step-by-step points that get us there that are rather simple to complete. I don’t want to work too hard. No 

Andrew: problem. Nope. So if you can pull, it sounds like a simple, no, it’s like that is, but that is the question, right?

It’s that’s a huge. And 

Josh: that’s a struggle, right? Yeah. 

Andrew: It’s like, that is 

Josh: question 

Andrew: that’s okay. How do you go from, well, I read about Jesus. I read about this God. Uh, Jesus and God, the father, I read about it in the Bible. I heard about it in Sunday school. I heard a certain preacher talk about it and it’s like saying, well, am I.

Culturally, Christian, whatever that is like I would fill out I’m Christian on a survey. Um, if that was one of my options or. Uh, how do you change it from kind of that outward focus of like, yeah, I’m just culturally Christian. Yeah. I go to church every once in a while, and I don’t have any personal relationship with God to know I’m a follower of Christ.

I’m a follower of, of the way, uh, as the, the earliest Christians would call it, they didn’t call it church. They just said we’re part of the way, um, which was the lifestyle, uh, of following God, uh, through the example of Jesus. So. I say all of that, because it’s like, it’s such a tough question, but to get to really practical, like, and this is obviously just through my lens, because I can only think through my brain and my experience, but, um, or I, I know most about it, but man, a couple of the things, um, Like, as we think about forgiving ourselves and kind of getting out of that dip, whatever that dip might be in your life right now, or in the recent past, or in the future, there’s going to be a debt.

Um, whatever that is like, you got to have, have hope that you’re on the right path. So for me, hope looks like I really believe in, in my mind, in my heart that. I’m following God by, by trying to live the way that Jesus taught and then trying to follow his example. I got to really believe that deep down, like I got to have hope that I’m on the right path because when I hit a dip, uh, when I hit a let’s, I can say a dip, but when I sin and then I sin in the same way and I sent in the same way, and I started to feel really beat down about it.

And I started to feel like, well, I’m never going to change. This is just the way it is. Um, that’s what I would call a dip, you know? Um, or the physical thing I talked about, um, that can be, that can be a dip. Um, but when you hit those moments, your faith is tested a little bit. Your, your, where is my foundation is tested a little bit.

So I have to truly believe that following Jesus is, is the right way. And I have to believe that today and tomorrow and the next day, and then when I hit the dip. I got to believe that still, you know? Um, so I guess I’m just saying, first of all, Have hope in what you hope for, you know, don’t be, wishy-washy, don’t be, this might be right.

Or this might be right. It’s like, no, I believe sincerely that I’m on the right path by following Jesus. And his example 

Josh: is the 

Andrew: source of life. Yeah. Just start there like that. And yeah. And I don’t know how to flip that switch in somebody, you know, I don’t know how that happens. It’s not my job to flip the switch, but, but first of all, I got to start by believing that in my mind that, yeah, my hope is in Jesus and that’s the one single place it should be.

So start there, I guess. And I think too, 

Josh: like anything. And, and John, you know, made the statement, um, in, you know, he quoted Jesus in his vision and revelation. I just listen to that episode. Um, that’s fine. 

Andrew: Uh, and 

Josh: relations any, any, you said this like, and the point I’m trying to make is you don’t get to sit on the fence and Christianity you’re in, or you’re out.

Like that’s, that’s the point that Jesus is trying to make. Um, and kind of the point that Andrew is trying to make right now, but, you know, Yeah, I read at judgment day. Jesus says like you are neither hot nor cold you lukewarm. I spit you out of my mouth. Um, you know, essentially denying you, um, um, eternity, well eternity with him.

You can’t play that size. The fence with them, we struggle with is, um, you know, there’s so many people that put their hope in so many different things, rather than in just Jesus alone. And this is the struggle of humanity. I get it. Um, but like, this is, these are the things that, uh, when we put our full trust, we put our full faith in Jesus that he is our source of life here as our source of hope.

Like that’s foundational. How, however you live this life. And I think we talked about this a few weeks ago when, when life gets crazy, when trials show up, what, what it’s good for is it’s revealing to where you’re actually putting your hope and your trust in your own abilities, in our government, in, in whatever, um, rather than in Jesus.

So now you get to redirect those things back to Jesus. It’s simple. It starts with just a prayer of, Hey Jesus. Like, forgive me. I was, I was trusting in these things rather trusting in you. And I want to learn how to trust in you more, um, helped me in that journey. Um, and I think that journey starts with, you’ve got to start the conversations with Jesus.

Like you can’t live this life and not spend time with Jesus. Like I. That’s a, that’s a wishy washy life. Like you might have this belief system that, you know, lives in the background and, um, dictate some of your behavior. But like if you’re not spending time with Jesus on a daily, consistent basis, like you’re missing out on so much life, so much wisdom, so much direction, so much, um, molding, like this is what the Christian life is about.

Like it’s a life with Jesus. This is literally went to what he went to the cross to restore was his relationship with, with you, um, like visit, these are the pieces that are so foundational to our faith that we miss out on. And part of it’s our own fault is Christianity in terms of like, We’ve we’ve started to worship the Bible rather than the inspire of the Bible.

Um, so it’s like read your Bible every day and you’re like, yeah, but you don’t read it just to read it. Like, that’s not the point. The point is relationship it’s, it’s a tool to foster relationship. So we read it because these are the recorded words of God to God’s people. Um, but we really read it in relationship with Jesus.

Jesus. What do you have to tell me today? What, how do you want to shape me? Mold me. And what do you wanna talk about? Yeah, these are the things that spur those conversations on, um, in they’re foundational in the sense of like, we don’t get way off track because Jesus is going to contradict himself like it’s recorded there.

Um, yeah. So, so stick to those things, but like, man, when, when we miss out on the relationship piece, um, you know, are we just going through the motions? Maybe like, well, I read my Bible every day. Awesome. What does it look like? How does it feel? Is it conversational? Does it feel like it’s a connection with Jesus or it’s just a chore?

Well, it’s just a chore. Foster the relationship. Um, just like you foster a relationship with anyone else. It’s no different. You’ve got to spend time with him. He’s got to spend time with them and ask questions and talk about stories and talk about your life and, um, all the things that you would do with a human being you’re going to do with, with God, the father as well.

Um, like it’s no different. Um, and I think that’s the piece we miss out on oftentimes and no wonder our realities, aren’t changing. No wonder our perspectives are, um, paradigms of this world aren’t changing. Um, because we’re just, we’re not digging in to the relationship that matters most. Um, we’re not digging into the.

Christian community relationship that should be around us is Christ called us to love them as well. Um, and this is why we’re missing out on so much. Does it take work? Yeah. Does it feel like discipline at times? 100%. Yeah, but it also is extremely life-giving most of the time. Um, like those conversations are the best conversations I have in a day, most of the time.

Um, and throughout the day for that matter, like don’t let it just be one moment in time as, as your journey with Jesus just becomes second nature to it. To talk with them. Now, if you’re not a follower of Jesus, this sounds crazy and weird. I get that too. But. Like I’m telling you, give it a shot. Um, there’s something to it.

Um, it starts to change the foundation in which you build your life on. Um, and we’re not talking about this rule, this list of rules and don’t do’s and don’ts and being morally, right. I’m talking about any of those things and all those things fricking matter. What we’re talking about is our relationship with Jesus.

And then as we foster those things, as we dig into those things, as we let him start to mold and shape our views of this life, Not scripture changing our views of our life. That’s important, but Jesus doing it through scripture. That’s important because we interpret things wrong constantly. Uh, we start to see it and that paradigm start to shift and change.

Um, but I think that’s, that’s great, Andrew, kind of to not sum up, but to some of this part of the conversation, the first was figure out where your trust and hope is. Yes, it’s not Jesus start investing in those things. Um, and then once that starts to solidify, are you spending time with Jesus daily? Um, it’s not a, it’s not a checklist.

It’s not a chore it’s relationship. And we can’t say that enough. And that’s why we’ve gone through, you know, the last 35 episodes is we’re trying to foster a relationship, right. Between you and Jesus and you and, and others. Um, that’s why we’ve, we’ve covered these verses. That’s why we’ve covered these topics.

Um, because we believe that this is where hope lives, um, hopeless. When our foundation is set on Jesus hope lives, and we live our lives in the way Jesus called us to which is to love him and to love people, um, and to do those to the best of our ability. Um, and when we fail, we get back up. Then we try it again.

Cause we’re going to fail. It’s inevitable. Or when life throws us a curve ball, we didn’t expect it that way. A trial shows up, take what you can learn from it. Where were you putting your trust in 

Andrew: your hope have overcome the world. That’s how you remember it. That’s why you read your Bible. Just one tangent.

I know we got to wrap soon, man, but one tangent of why you should read your Bible today. Even if it feels like discipline. And let me be honest. I don’t read it every day. I try to, I want to, but some days I get. Busy with other stuff. Um, read your Bible today so that tomorrow or the next month or the next year, that those things you read then can pop in your mind through the, through the prompting of the Holy spirit and make sense to the context you’re in today.

Um, so that maybe, maybe you read the. In this road, you have many troubles, but take heart. I’ve overcome the world. Maybe you’ve read that when you’re on vacation with your legs up and you are resting, you you’ve slept better for a whole week than you’ve slept the whole year before your belly is full. You have no trouble.

There’s no trouble in the world that you’re worried about in that moment. But guess what? Six months later, year later, two years later, something’s going to come knocking on your door where boom, that verse can be used if you know it. And, and it can remind you of the truth, uh, that Jesus taught us that that was outlined in the Bible and spoken through the Bible.

The Holy spirit can use it in that moment. To speak to you. That’s maybe why you read your Bible today is not always so that every single word that you read that moment can pop off the page and apply and blow your mind. Sometimes it does, but read it today cause you’re putting it in the bank for when you need it, you know, and, and really putting it in the bank so that the Holy spirit can kind of inspire through it in, in his timing.

Uh, not necessarily in your timing. So, yeah, man, that’s my final thought on that. Yeah. 

Josh: And the other, the other piece too, like, um, there’s a verse. I’m trying to remember that. Um, I recently read that, I think fits her so well for the life of me. I can’t find it nor remember what the verse actually says. I just keep going worst as we’re talking, which is frustrating, but yeah.

Um, like I think of this, if you think through, um, your elementary school years, And you think through the things you learned through those years, um, what brings back more impact the teacher’s relationship or what the teacher taught? Right. Like there’s more impact. And I think back of, you know, I had a great, uh, uh, history teacher, my junior year of high school, um, learned a ton from him.

Can I tell you exactly what I learned from him? No. Um, but I can tell you as things come up. If I think back, I was like, Oh, I probably learned that from Mr. . Um, but it was the relationship. Like that’s the impact that had on my life. And it’s the same thing in, in spending time with Jesus, through reading his word and prayer.

It’s the relationship. That’s the thing we hold on to and come back to. Um, it’s not the things that necessarily you’re, you’re reading or learning in those moments. They play a role they’re important, but like that’s, that’s not the thing that has the greatest impact it’s relationship. Um, and I think this is where we miss it or reading.

We’re reading scripture is we don’t do it for a relationship. Um, we’re not using it as a tool to have conversation and, and letting that being the jump off point for that conversation to continue, um, over the next few days, um, or a few hours, whatever it happens to be, right? Like it’s just this information that we store away and it’s not information, that’s not the point there’s information in there.

There’s, there’s moral truths in there. Um, there’s things that have impact on our lives and how we live and don’t live. But it’s relationship is the key. Yeah, we can’t say it enough. Like it’s, it’s my conversations, the deep conversations that I get to have with Jesus about my life and about my thoughts and about my emotions and about the things going on that were a jump off point from a, a simple intro of point of Paul’s letters that took you down this rabbit trail of conversation, because conversation leads to relationship, right?

Like this is what we’re trying to dig into. And then there’s other times where you say absolutely nothing and you just sit there, uh, and, and just. Experienced the relationship of just his presence being around, um, like we get those moments as well, that that are so fruitful and no conversations happening, um, at least not deal conscious conversation.

Right. And I think we miss out on that as well. Like scripture is so important. It’s important because it’s foundational. It’s important because it fosters relationship with Jesus, but it’s not the most important thing. That’s so  needs to be so clear. Jesus God, the father, his Foundry is the most important thing.

Now a lot of that’s recorded in scripture and that’s great. We have it. Um, it’s God’s word, you know, written down. Um, but it’s not the thing that we worship. And I think that’s where we get into a lot of trouble as we start to worship it rather than relate, you know, the other side of the relationship, which is Jesus.

Um, and we chase after those things. Um, and. You know, it, it’s easy for us to say like, well, if you’re in the middle of a, of a crappy trial season and everything just seems to be coming around to you, it’s easy for us to say we’re just focused on your relationship with Jesus more. And though that is a true statement.

It’s difficult to do when things are hard. And this is where Christian community comes into play. Um, this is where, you know, those that love God and love you in that order play a huge role because sometimes we’re just so disconnected from the source, um, because of, you know, because of our paradigm, you know, not changing our reality, not changing, um, sin, that’s enter the picture and of taking control so many different things that, that, that does that in our lives that we need those.

Followers of Jesus that loved Jesus, love us, um, to jump into our lives. So the first step is, as we said, numerous times through the last 15 episodes is tell somebody what’s going on, tell somebody, this is how I’m feeling. This is what’s going on in my head. If you’re married, tell your spouse, but don’t just tell your spouse.

Um, and I think this is an important step. Um, like, yes, your spouse is, is a great source for these things, but the problem is you are one at this point. Um, and if you, her one, at this point, sometimes you need an outside source, um, to be that support and that burden carrier. So let somebody else know outside of, of your marriage, um, to, to speak into it.

Don’t hide things from your spouse. That’s a bad idea, but, um, you definitely may need other people to speak into these things. Um, cause sometimes those that are closest to us, just let us continue to it. Delivering our destructive behavior, because it’s easier for everybody. We need somebody to step in and start to help carry that for us, with us.

It’s probably a better way to say that. Yeah. 

Andrew: Yeah, man, I think that’s super helpful. Um, I don’t know. I, you know, we started out to kind of talk about this idea of if you’re going to love other people, well, you gotta be able to figure it out for yourself. Um, and I think. The reason why is because you’re forgiven.

And if you, if you can’t accept forgiveness for yourself, then you probably can’t accept it for the Lord or from the Lord. Um, and that’s going to impact a lot of how you see life. It’s going to impact that paradigm. It’s going to impact the way you look at the world. And, uh, I don’t know. I just think starting with the really practical stuff we just laid out of.

Where does your hope come from? Where do you have hope in? Is it through Jesus? And if it’s not, how can it be through Jesus? You know, start there, um, then move into kind of. How do I hear from him? How do I get to know the Lord better? Um, I spend time with them. Well, what does that look like? Reading your Bible, praying, um, having real conversations like you talked about, and then opening up to the people’s side, having real conversations with people.

Here’s what I’m struggling with and people not just random Joe’s on the street, but people who love God and love you in that order. Like you talked about, it seems like, I feel like those are three good steps. You start there, you can’t go wrong. Um, and I’m not going to give you another 10 steps. I just feel like those are three foundational things that you can do today, tomorrow this month, this year and start moving.

So, um, I don’t know, man. That’s all good. And, and I think it’s part of this Jesus’ 

Josh: life. On this series, we’ve spent 15 episodes talking about first Corinthians 13 because we believe Jesus commands of loving God and loving people. Um, them being mutually exclusive, um, are all about relationship and herself.

We’re going to love people. Well, how do we love people? So we went straight to the love verses, and these aren’t just for romantic intimate relationships or relationships, you know, you call the closest, but these are for all relationships. So we function side of, um, and as you said earlier, Andrew, You know, that, that verse, those section of verses verse 11, is it 11, eight verse eight says and love never fails.

Yep. Um, when things are failing around you relationships specifically, probably because love exited. The situation. So how do we bring love back into that situation? And love takes a lot of sacrifice. It takes a lot of patients it’s it takes a lot of denying of oneself in our wants and our desires for the sake of each other.

It’s not easy. Um, but that’s the thing that continues to allow relationship to foster and to grow. Um, Uh, dig into your relationship with Jesus. Um, you know, we covered, uh, verses or episodes like four through eight, nine, something like that. We call them Jesus habits of just things that help foster that relationship.

Yeah. Uh, maybe you need to do a fast to reset. Uh, maybe you need to practice a new habit. Um, but here are the things that help foster that relationship with Jesus from your perspective or what you can do from your side. Uh, and then Jesus course is there. He’s waiting. Um, he hasn’t gone anywhere. Uh, he is a 100%, um, present in your life, whether you feel them or not.

Um, and he has a purpose and a plan for your future. Uh, we start a new series, Andrew new. What do we do next? I don’t know if he 

Andrew: said this. No, we haven’t people where you are going in to the parables parables that Jesus talked about. Um, and it’s going to be a great ride. Um, kind of the, the stories that Jesus used to teach big concepts of what is the kingdom of heaven look like?

So it’s going to be, it’s going to be awesome. And I think we’re going to be there for probably at least 15 episodes. So, um, we’ll be seeing you there. You can listen to us. Talk about parables in just a couple of weeks. It’s coming up, coming in hot and I’m excited about it 

Josh: design even a couple of weeks.

It will be next week from when they’re listening to this. It’s coming really soon. Yeah, it is in RPA. Yeah. 

Andrew: Sorry about that. It will be next 

Josh: week. Yeah. I won’t kick that off. We’re trying to look at it from. Maybe a different perspective, maybe pulling things out of it that, uh, you may not have seen before.

Um, because oftentimes when we hear certain stories, right. We like, we know how this ends. Um, and that’s true. We do know how it ends, but at the same time, I think there’s more meat inside of what Jesus is trying to teach us that we can pull out that we may not be missing. Um, and that’s what we’re going to try to do for you as we dig into these parables starting next week.

Andrew: Thanks for listening to our show. It really means a lot to us, and we hope that it helps bring you closer in your relationship with Jesus and with other 

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