THIS JESUS LIFE PODCAST

Is Your God in Control?

Episode No. 015

Control is a scary word in our world today, but our view of God’s Throne Characteristics: Sovereign, Holy, Absolute Truth, Righteous, gives us confidence and security in this life and relationship with Him. In this episode, we try to break down these characteristics and their impact on our lives and relationship with Jesus.

Resources

Verses – 1 Peter 1:14-16. Verse – Proverbs 9:10. Verse – John 8:31-32. Verse – Ephesians 4:22-24. Book – The Character of God. Book – Discovering the God Who Is

Transcription

Josh: Hello. Hello. Hello. We’re just two normal dudes trying to live this jesus’ life. My name’s Josh.

Andrew: Hey, Hey, I’m Andrew. And we are this Jesus life podcast. Jeff. We are at episode 15, dude, 15 hours of us talking.

Josh: That’s a lot of hours more than that. Which to be honest, we don’t, we don’t hit under an hour that often.

Andrew: No, we don’t.

Josh: We don’t,

Andrew: but you know, we’re here episode 15. If you’re listening to this, thank you for listening to it. We love your feedback. And honestly, we’d love to hear from you on Instagram, on our email, whatever way you want to reach out. We want to hear what you think. So please do that. We’ll tell you more how.

Later, but, uh, but thanks for actually being here. It’s pretty cool that anybody’s listening.

Josh: That’s true. That’s true. I would say I want anyone about our moms are listening, but my mom doesn’t listen. So it’s really just your mom. Mostly. It’s my mom. Listen. It’s like once in a great while I was talking to my brother too.

He’s in town right now and, uh, he, uh, He doesn’t listen to that often either. Um, his excuses, he doesn’t listen to podcasts in general that often. So to remember, to listen to us. So it’s the people that listen to podcasts on a regular basis that we’ve, we’ve nailed them to everybody else that all of our other friends.

So who’s actually listening the headache for us to hit the numbers that we hit. Who knows. That’s a little mind boggling. Cause our friends tell us they don’t listen.

Andrew: So all that to say, this is the future at the time we’re doing this and maybe we’re getting better. Maybe we’re getting worse. I don’t know. But I’m excited

Josh: at one point 15 was our first season. That’s what we set our season two you’re right. We just felt like it was. Solid number. And now we’re going to blow past that since we’re in the middle of a series, as we talk about our views of God and the impact of those things, that our life.

Yeah. But, uh,

Andrew: yeah, been excited about this topic more than I thought I would be. As you know, Josh, we kind of started it with like, uh, looking at views that aren’t necessarily whole or complete and kind of lead to like. Um, pitfalls basically. And then last episode, we were talking really about like big views of God, um, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, all powerful.

And I forget exactly what we called it, but that type of thing, like really big views. I’m really interested to see where we go. As we talk into some of the more like, Character characteristics of God today, um, being sovereign. Holy, um, what are the other ones? Absolutely true and righteous. It’ll be, it’ll be cool.

I I’ve been encouraged in this discussion. So hopefully you have been to, um, from the amount of notes you put in, I think you probably have been.

Josh: Yeah, I just copy and paste them from other places. Let’s be honest. They’re not real notes. Um, but yeah, no, I’m excited about the conversation. Uh, we are in to like, as I listened to the last episode, that’s live.

So we’re, we’re recording a few in a row here right now, um, to kind of get our producer some breathing room. Since we’re asking you to turn the things around in 48 hours, um, which is understandably difficult, but, um, Though I was doing it in 24. I’m just saying not professional, but whatever. Just kidding.

Thank you so much for editing our podcast, my friend, um, But I was listening to the one that is live as we went through the poor views of God and those effects on our, our relationship with God. And I was sad that the next episode wasn’t live yet, so I couldn’t listen to it, but I was excited of kind of where we were headed.

Yeah. It’s funny as we record these things, I’m like, sure. We’re. In the we’re in the conversation. Like I hear everything Andrew says and Andrew hears everything. I say, well, we hear it audibly. We want to understand it. Cause we’re thinking about the next thing we’re going to say, but, Mmm. But it’s funny when you go back and listen to it and how much it, it feeds our souls, even in helping us in our own relationship with Jesus and finding faulty views of God and re correcting certain views of God.

Um, It’s, you know, things being said that you’re like, I don’t, I don’t remember saying that or I don’t remember Andrew saying that I wasn’t really paying attention close enough. So it’s been a great series personally, not only in terms of the content that we’re putting out. Yeah. Then I’m also proud and excited about

Andrew: that’s fair.

That’s cool. And I feel the same way. It’s definitely enjoyable to listen back. So, um, without further ado and without you asking. Dude, I’ve been racking my brain on what to tell you about the chickens. And I gotta be honest. There’s not a ton new they’re just out there. They’re kind of stinky these days, but they’re pretty cool.

They like, they, like when I walk up there and I just say, how do you clean them? No, I don’t, I don’t because like, I mean, they’re just kind of selling themselves. Yeah. Yeah. They like pick the bugs and dirt and all that stuff off of each other. So they, like, they stay pretty clean looking, but they’re just stinky, you know,

Josh: I to get like some like Febreeze, like we would like willows automatic refreshers from like a bathroom.

And just like

Andrew: that just sprays every 90 seconds or whatever.

Josh: It just keeps, it keeps us selling, smelling fresh,

Andrew: look into that. That might be a good solution, but, but they’re pretty friendly. They like people, they like to eat grass from your hand, but there is one chicken that my daughter named Catherine after her and that chicken bit me last night, dude, I was trying to pet it.

And it like, like, you know, sometimes they’ll Peck real quick, this chicken just straight up, grabbed my finger with the beacon, trying to chomp it down. It means the chicken, so it didn’t hurt. But, um, but I called it, I called it a dirty bird and, uh, and yelled at the shit went ha and scared it afterwards.

So I guess that’s my chicken update is some have attitude.

Josh: No. The next update is you woke up this morning and there was a chicken that had a heart attack and died overnight.

Andrew: We’ll see, TBD.

Josh: How you doing, man? Yeah, I’m doing well. I can’t complain. It’s it’s Monday right now as we’re recording this and Monday’s a Monday, so plenty of things to do and accomplish for the week. Uh, Jack is, uh, Really just secluding himself. I think he’s overwhelmed with the amount of family that’s around.

So he spending a lot of time outside, uh, when they go outside, he comes inside. Yeah. He spent a lot of time in my room, which he usually didn’t spend time by himself in my room. Cause well, he’s also a needy dog and constantly be around me. Right. So he’s, I think he’s overwhelmed. He snapped at my niece one day.

Uh, cause like he took her blanket and pillow cause he loves soft things and she tried to move him and he was like, absolutely not like grounded her.

Andrew: And I think,

Josh: I think of the correction of that. He’s like, Oh, I should just avoid them all because I should stay

Andrew: away from people forever. Yeah. Yeah.

Josh: Don’t know.

He seems fine though. You’ll be okay.

Andrew: Yeah. You just need some rest. That’s it. RNR dude. As we think about these kind of subjects of like God being sovereign. Holy, absolutely true absolute truth and righteous. What we don’t have to go through every single one in that order, by any means we can go whatever direction we want.

But when you hear those traits of God, what kind of Springs to mind or doesn’t spring to mind when you think about God being those things.

Josh: What doesn’t spring to mind. Probably a lot of things I don’t know, off the top of my head. Cause they’re just not springing to mind. But to the other side of your question, what Springs to mind? Uh, I think in all of those things, they kind of can be summed up as there’s no one else like him, right? Like, like we talk about and being sovereign or wholly being set apart, um, being absolute truth.

Like there’s no other being for lack of a better term. It feels weird to call it God, to being, but I don’t know what else to call them right. In the sense. Um, but for God being this being that there’s nothing else can even come close to who he is and what he. Does or represents about himself, um, in our understanding of all creation.

Um, so I, I think there’s a piece of that where it’s, you know, we get into a lot of these words and I think oftentimes this is where people struggle, um, with not putting God is like the judge in terms of like, not. Going back a couple of episodes, not, um, putting God in this vengeful position where it God’s just watching me and making sure I don’t do anything wrong.

Um, I think this is where you can get those ideas from is from kind of these large ideas of sovereign Holy, um, absolute truth. Um, And I think you have to have a good view of all four of these kinds of areas to make sure you don’t end up down those roads of God’s just trying out to get me there though.

God is sovereign. Um, you know, he is, there’s nothing else like him in this world. And though he, um, Does dictate all things and isn’t 100% control of creation though. He’s Holy and is perfect and is blameless and is set apart though. He is absolute truth and there is all truth is found inside of him. Um, and then even, you know, he’s, of course he’s righteous.

So, you know, the standards of morality are set by, by him. Um, like it’s easy to take all of these big ideas and try to. Comprehend them or understand them, um, in relationship to ourselves. And I think that’s where we land on that. Well, God’s just a judge. He’s going to, to, you know, set me straight. He’s going to correct me.

He’s going to all these different things. Um, and though he is all these things you have to also remember he’s personal he’s he is love he’s, uh, has deep care for his creation. Hmm. Um, and has a special care for our part of creation, humanity, um, and the relationship that he desires to have with us. Um, so it’s easy to go down.

The road of God is going to be vengeful. He’s going to come after you, um, and miss out on so much more of our relationship, but yeah, those are the thoughts that do come to mind. I don’t know what doesn’t come to mind. That’s good. What about you, Andrew?

Andrew: I was, I was thinking about this a little before we started talking and.

The thing. I said, what doesn’t come to mind because as I think about these traits, sovereign, Holy absolute truth, righteous. Um, I believe those things about God. I believe that God is the sovereign, like the ruler, the King, the King of Kings, the, the King of other lesser authorities. He is, he is the one, the, the ruler.

Um, I believe that, but I don’t think about that trait that often. Do you know what I mean? Like that’s, that’s I guess what I was trying to get at is like, I don’t think about God being Holy or absolute truth, or even righteous that often. Um, they just don’t hit my brain and definitely not in my heart that often now, now God being the ruler, God being the ultimate authority.

I know. I think about that more often, because there’s so many things in life that are just super far out of control. Like I was telling you, um, I was telling you that, uh, Janna was driving with her daughter a little bit ago and just run into Costco and almost got totally smashed by two semis. One swung into her lane that was beside her, like totally out of the blue.

Another one was behind her, unfortunately swerved and hit the brakes. So she could too, but dude, it was like, Obviously out of her control out of my control, um, but not out of God’s control. And it’s like in even tiny moments like that. I’ve, you know, I’ve prayed and thanked God, like thank you that they’re okay.

Thank you. That this wreck didn’t happen. Cause it could have been like a life ending event pretty easily. And it’s just huge. But here it is. It’s just normal Monday, other than that. But God knew that was going to happen. I gave you the wherewithal to be aware that that was happening and not just be hit.

So I don’t know. I think of God being the ruler of all in the ultimate authority of all. More than those other traits, I guess, as far as Holy, like at the image that came to my mind was we got to go to Italy a few years ago. We saved up this big trip and we went to Rome as part of that. And we went to, um, st.

Peter’s Basilica, which is where, you know, um, the Catholic Pope. Hangs out that’s that’s like where he does mass and where, you know, everybody thinks of as kind of like the center of, of conversion.

Josh: I’m picturing, I’m picturing the Pope, like kinda like. Sprawled out on a Pew, his leg up over it as he hangs out.

Andrew: Yeah.

Josh: Relaxing. Just completely chill.

Andrew: Yeah, totally chill. But yeah, we, um, did that building is like the most insane structure I’ve ever been in and it screams like. It screamed a lot of things, but I think if you, if you just are standing in that room and looking at the altarpiece and at the hundred and 50 foot tall ceilings and these huge domes in this like beautiful artwork and gold everywhere, and all this stuff.

You think like this is whoever, the people that designed this, that built this, that painted this, they wanted it to communicate God’s holiness or be something that, uh, that kind of shows that like, God is this very unique being. So this is like this huge thing I think. But at the other side, it also communicates like, Uh, the calf would pull up.

Pope is like a, like a ruler figure. You know, like this is, there is a thorny here. Um, and I don’t think Jesus would love all the gold and artwork and all that stuff, but that’s, that’s neither here nor there, but, uh, but it didn’t feel necessarily God’s presence, but I felt this like, This is big. This is like magnified.

This is meant to communicate holiness. This is meant to be communicate authority. And it’s a lot of people with I’m sure, great intentions as they design their art or their sculptures or whatever, where the things are that fill that place, um, where they were trying to say, this is my expression of some piece of God, of his, his sovereignty of his holiness, of his truth, of his righteousness, of his.

Whatever forgiveness, you know? Um, so yeah, but I just don’t day to day think about it. These things that much, I guess, until I do. You know, that’s what I’m trying to say.

Josh: Yeah. I guess these are the characters, characteristics of God. We can call like the throne characteristics. Like these are the things that put God on his throne.

Like he is sovereign, meaning like he is 100% without fail in control. Um, there’s things that happen. Um, There’s things that happen in this world, not necessarily by his hand, but they happened, God allowed those things to still happen. Like he did have ultimate control for evil to happen in this world. Um, not that he, um, isn’t it evil vengeful God, like that’s the issue here, but he does have the ability to stop it now.

Because the way that he has set up his interaction with humanity in terms of like the enemy is still in control of this world, like sense still exists. And because he gives us choice in the matter of those things, like evil is going to exist because sin exists now he’s allowing us things to happen until ultimately he.

You know, Jesus comes back, you know, for the second time. And re-establishes his ultimate kingdom once. And for all, and everything changes from that moment, you know, being Holy, like for me, it’s that, you know, you think of like the revelation versus where. Um, John is describing his, his vision or his experience of, of, uh, the temple room that the place and where God dwells.

Uh, and he says, there’s these chairmen, uh, flying around the room and they’re covered in eyes and they look like different animals and they have wings. And, um, the words that they’re repeating over and over and over again is Holy. Holy, Holy is the Lord. God almighty. Who was it is and is to come like there because there is no one else.

Like God, um, Like he, you know, that holiness essentially demands our devotion. Um, like there’s nothing else higher than him. He carries ultimate authority. He carries ultimate knowledge. He carries ultimate, um, morality. He carries ultimate everything. And, and because of that position, um, you know, we, we.

Devote our worship to him. We choose to follow him because following anything less than that would be following a lesser being or a lesser God. And why would you want to do something like that? Um, like if you have access to the full notice of God, but also like getting into like the authority idea or the, the, the throne, characteristics of God, the things that put him on that threat, um, like it’s easy, um, to.

To kind of, I guess, pull back in those moments. Cause you’re not worthy. Maybe that’s the position that you take. Like that’s a scary idea to picture God in that way, but even as we picture God, these characteristics are true. We also remember he’s also a personal and loving God at the same exact time. Um, because he’s personal, we do get to approach this room, which now you now creates this whole other dynamic of like, Whoa, like.

I get to enter into such a Holy place with such a Holy God, because of what Jesus did on the cross. Like that just creates a higher level of gratitude, um, inside of us. But yeah, going back to the Catholic church, like in building these massive, massive, beautiful churches and expensive churches. You know, the, the Protestants have, have taken such a harsh view to it.

It’s a waste of money it’s this and that it’s personal. And I agree to some extent with some of those things, but like look at it from their perspective, like here is, you know, if, if, if there was some characteristics, the Catholic church hold onto about who God is, they hold onto these ones, right. They throw out the whole Honda, these throne views of God.

Um, so if that’s the view of God, you haven’t, it’s the only view of God you have wouldn’t you want. To try to create a place, uh, the best of your possible ability that somewhat is Mmm. A representation, but not only that somewhat like is desiring. Yeah, so you got to come to or dwell in. Um, so I get it, it’s the same thing with Solomon building the temple, like, you know, he built the physical space and God was okay with the tabernacle and, um, you know, but it was this devotion, this love and, and I think it just so easily demonstrates when we don’t have a full holistic view of who God actually is.

And we focus in on just one or just a few of these things, right. This is how easily we can find ourselves missing out on so much of who God is, because we chose to just focus on one aspect of God.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. That’s fair, man. And, um, I’m not trying to bash the, the Catholic church or whatever, but

Josh: yeah,

Andrew: you’re right.

Like, as I think back to that, standing in, if you’ve ever been in one of those huge cathedrals, you know, and st Peter’s is just so massive, it’s just ridiculously massive, like. It feels like you’re a whole city is inside one building, like it’s nuts. And that’s just the part you can see. Like there’s even more underneath all of that.

It’s huge. But, but one thing is it does really effectively or did for me, as soon as you walk in the doors, you’re like, wow, there are like a thousand people in here and it, I still feel tiny. You know what I mean? Like this feels small in front of God. I feel small in this physical space, it’s kind of like.

If you’re looking at Pike’s peak or you’re standing on top of Pike’s peak and looking out or something, um, or just any huge mountain, you’re just like, wow, I’m tiny and God created this and this is tiny to him. You know, this is nothing compared to him. So yeah. I don’t know it does you’re right. It does help exhibit kind of the throne, characteristics of God, of like, this is why God’s on throne and I’m not, but you, you mentioned something of like, um, Why would you want to serve anything that isn’t.

Holy like God is Holy. Um, you said something like that. And I thought immediately of, of Romans one, um, where they’re talking about, um, I think Paul, yeah, Paul wrote Romans, um, and it says, um, that they, they worshiped and served the things that they created rather than the creator themselves. I’m talking about basically God letting people follow their passions, whether they honored him or don’t.

And, um, that, you know, he can, he can allow you to be blinded by your own sin to worship the things that you create by your hand, whether it be physical sticks and stones or technology or whatever it is, the thing that, that you create, you can start worshiping that and you can start having a view of that.

That is. That this thing, this idol is, is what my God is. You know, this idol, we’ll just go really little literal, like the idol, this, this wooden thing that I’ve adorned with cold that I pray to. You know, I don’t pray to a wooden thing, adorned with gold, but you know, a lot of people have and maybe do still.

I don’t know, but you know, I’ve set up this little corner in my closet. And I filled it with these beautiful little gold pieces and this, this wooden carving of this figure, you know, this face that I see, that is my representation of God. And pretty soon I think maybe, maybe why that’s tempting is that you can see it, you can touch it, you can feel it, you can blame it for your problems and you can praise it for the good things in your life.

So it’s maybe

Josh: a.

Andrew: It’s maybe tempting almost to be like that very tangible thing, right. There is my God, that thing that I can even control, whether I want to admit it or not is my God, because then it’s just kinda like, I’m my God, you know, I don’t have this, I don’t have this thrown above me. That is. Yeah, that is truly perfect and righteous and, and in control that I have to worship, I can just worship this thing.

Josh: Yeah. And I think this is where, and you saw this with the Israelites too. This is where they struggled, um, that. Because God is so vast and God is so Holy meaning set apart from us. Um, it’s hard to kind of put concrete to it at times. Um, so in our attempt to put concrete to it, um, you know, the. The Israelites built the temple and wanted to have imagery of who God was inside of their temple, because that’s what the other gods around had.

But God didn’t have it. I’m intrigued. So they struggled in this place. It’s the same thing with us. Like we, we, we want to know what God looks like, because that gives us safety. That gives us confidence. That gives us whatever it gives you in those moments. Um, but at the same time, when you start to do that, though, it’s from a good place, I’m just trying to understand God.

It’s so easily becomes the place and now we’ve missed out on so much more, right? Like it’s even, you take all these different characteristics as we, as we talk about them. I think, I think there’s 11 that we’re talking about. I don’t remember off the top of my head, but, um, You just take one of them. Like I want to fully understand that God is love.

That’s awesome. That’s, that’s amazing. The problem you run into, if God is love all the time, now you’ve come into this place where, well, God is just love. And if God is just loving, that’s not what scripture says. It says, God is love. But if God is just love, then, um, he doesn’t care as much about sin that destroys my life and it destroys the lives around me because God’s just gonna love me no matter what, right.

That’s how you end up in those places. Um, So, this is why it’s so important to take this holistic view of who God is to make sure that we’re balancing well between all these different characteristics of God, to make sure that we have the best understanding that we possibly can of who God is. It’s kind of like a marriage, right?

Like, you know, you talk to individuals who’ve been married 50 years. Yeah. There’s the ones that really seem to enjoy their marriages. They’re still learning things about one another, right? It’s the same thing with our relationship with God. Like you’re never going to come to a place where you’re like, yeah, I know everything about God.

Like we’re set. I know how he thinks. I know as much as we want to, because that gives us safety. Um, it makes me feel secure. Um, it’s not who God is. It’s the same thing with your mate, right? Like. You get to a place where like, well, I think I know everything about them. Well, they’re not interesting to you anymore.

And at some point you’re just going to like, you’re just going through the steps, but if you’re still infatuated with her after you know, 20, 30 years, and you’re still wanting to learn more about how she looks at life in her head or her mind is. You know, ticking and all these different, like there’s, so there’s so much depth to all these things.

It’s that depth you don’t want to lose in your relationship with Jesus? I think this is the reason that, that, you know, they, the scripture uses the imagery of, of Christ being, um, Uh, sorry, the church being the bride of Christ. I think that’s all I use. The marriage imagery is like, there’s depth in relationship of that and you commit to it.

Um, you’re in it for the, for, for a lifetime. But in the midst of that, you’re still learning about one another. So it’s this depth that you want to kind of hold into and you go back to the Catholic church and I’m sure some of the theologies rough and I would argue wrong, but at the same time I get how they get there.

Like, yeah. You know, it’s, it’s this throne view of God and it’s, this is what they’re chasing, and this is what everything’s been built around. Um, so you can’t pull these other views that God’s not personal, um, in the Catholic church because of this. Now he’s personal with some Catholics. Um, but the theology of the Catholic churches, God’s not personal.

Like you have to go through the church to get to God, and that’s not necessarily the case, um, in, in the Protestant viewpoint. We could be wrong. Who knows? We’ll find out what before we’re all, but I don’t think I’m wrong.

Andrew: I’m sure we’re all a little bit wrong, uh, in, in different ways that we’ll find out.

Josh: It’s like the it’s like the predestination argument and Arminianism and Calvinism, like we’re going to get up there and be like, Oh, we’re all wrong. This is how it really works.

Andrew: Seriously. Um, man,

Josh: the,

Andrew: so. This might be out of context. I don’t know. But one of the verses you put under kind of the heading of absolute truth of God is absolute truth is from John eight.

And it says, um, I think this was Jesus talking. And he says, you are truly my disciples. If you keep obeying my teachings and you will know the truth, uh, and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. Um, that’s one thing I like. A lot about Jesus is that he says things that are really easy to understand.

Um, he says things that are really clear. And I think, um, that one of the things he said that, that I think about kind of often is that, um, he came, uh, not necessarily to. To be like the great unifier and not to be the great like war bringer, but to be like the one who brings truth, which is sharper than any two edged sword and divides, like it cuts, you know, it’s the truth.

Yeah. And, and this is one of those lines where it’s like, you are truly my disciples. If you keep obeying my teachings, pots, And you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. So it’s like, wait, how do I follow Jesus? And he’s like, if you actually do what I’ve told you to do, you’re my follower.

You’re my disciples. Just do the things I told you to do now. That’s not always easy. But, um, like, but he laid it out real clear, you know, do the things they told you to do. That’s how you’re, you’re my disciple. And that’s how you’re going to know the truth. Even more like that’s how you’re going to have God’s truth reflected back in your life is by, um, action essentially, or not always physical action, but by, by managing your thoughts or by taking inventory of the things that you dwell on, uh, internally externally, the things that you do, like.

Are you trying to obey the things that God told you in your life? Or are you not trying to, because you’re going to have a better picture of what the truth is and what the absolute truth is through God, if you’re actually doing the things that, that God told you to do and that Jesus commanded vest. Yeah.

Josh: Yeah. I push against that idea a little bit, um, from the perspective of. And, and I’m just coming out of this camp. So this is all fresh in my head, but, um, like for them, the longest time it was let’s barrel bare knuckle, this enough to conquer the sins and the faulty thinking in my life to essentially, you know, keep a Jesus commands.

Um, and, and then we’re going to get to the end of this and everything’s going to be great, but it also doesn’t work. Hmm. Um, what do you think habitual sins and people in people’s lives, um, and all they’re gonna do is bare knuckle through it, and they’re going to self-will their way out of it. And eventually that sins just going to go away, does it happen sometimes?

Sure. Does it happen most of the time? Absolutely not. Um, so now you go back to the truth and if the truth is, if you’re my disciples, you’ll keep obeying my teachings and you’re like, well, And I think in other versions, it’s, you know, if you love me, you’ll obey. My commands is the same way in the same chunk of scripture there.

I think that’s the, the fine versus, but, um, yeah. What was I saying? Um, so. There’s this thing of like, well, it’s all on me and I, and I don’t think that’s true as the more and more I read the new Testament and read jesus’ words to us. And I read the epistles words to us. Like, I don’t think that’s true. I think the key to conquering those things in our lives is relationship with Jesus.

So how can I invest more time, energy into those things, rather than trying to just conquer all these things on my own. I think you’re going to get. You’re going to know more truth that will set you free as you dig into that relationship with Jesus. Like that’s the key of all of this. And as you dig in that relationship with Jesus, he’s going to reveal things into your heart and into your mind that you weren’t even thinking about in terms of, um, um, Uh, faulty thinking or in terms of sin that you didn’t realize you were committing or in terms of, um, the destruction to relationship, you didn’t even know you’re committing, right?

Like all these different things, like as you pour into relationship with Jesus, those things are not only revealed to us, but as Jesus said, at the end of the great commission, he’s with this always till the very end of the age, he’s in the midst of, uh, with us. And I think that’s always the key. And I think that’s where we go.

Go straight. Like it’s putting it’s it’s this struggle or this tension that we’re constantly trying to pull it back to our own will and our own ability to do something, right. Like you look at, this is what you’ll find. You’ll find this more often today than probably in recent years, but you’ll find individuals that have been Christians a long time.

I’m sorry to sway one way or the other. Um, When they kind of get to this place of we’ll call it maturity for lack of a better term, but I don’t think it’s actual maturity in Jesus. Um, they start to sway back towards old, old covenant commands. So they start to practice festivals and, and, and rituals that we find throughout, you know, Israel’s life with, with, with God, um, or they start to sway to this whole charismatic movement of prophecy and, um, um, Uh, I don’t know the words times hostel windows.

Okay. Yeah. And then that’s, that could probably be a third is revelation in terms of I’m going to dive into Jesus coming back. We don’t see that as much today as we did back in the nineties, but the nineties and early two thousands. But I think right now it’s, it’s. Going back to Judaism or going to spirituality or spiritual wisdom.

I’m in these two kinds of camps and there’s aspects of both those camps that aren’t bad or aren’t good. But I think what’s really happening is I’m unsatisfied with my relationship with Jesus, with my Christianity and I need more, or I need to look like I’m a more mature than I actually am. So I’m going to chase after these.

Things that are tangible. They’re physical things that I can do. These things make sense to me. Um, and I can grab onto these things and then I can, they can be the concrete thing that I can look back and say, no, look at, I do all these things, God, but you go back to revelation and you know, I think where did this first, last episode, but you go back

They said, well, we did all these things in your name. Jesus. Like we, we, we did this, we did this, we did this. And Jesus says, you know, away from me for, I never knew you. Um, and that’s, that’s what we’re running into is you’re chasing after all these physical things that you can tangibly control and do, and you feel like I’m doing the right things and miss the relationship altogether and you get to the end and Jesus says, I don’t know, you, you never spent time with me, all these things for me.

And that’s fantastic and great, except for the fact that you’re not willing me, like you miss the point in the whole matter. And I think it goes back to this whole conversation. You know, the, the we’re kind of in right now is like it’s relationship with Jesus. That’s 100% the key there’s no other way around it.

So we foster the relationship with Jesus Balti, views of God affect our relationship with Jesus, because now we have faulty views of Jesus. Yeah. This is the things that we’re trying to combat. Those are the only things we can really control and that we control the time that we spend with Jesus, like what we went through whole series of spiritual disciplines, great disciplines to help you.

Foster your relationship with Jesus. Like that’s really what we’re trying to do here. That’s the key to all of this. You want to start conquering sins in your life and I know you’ve, you’ve heard the cliche. We just gotta, you gotta think more about Jesus and then you think less about sin. Yeah, that’s true.

Um, it’s not helpful. Because you’re not helping them really. How do I spend more time with Jesus? Like you’re not fostering bring that piece of it, but I think that’s the missing piece inside of Christianity today is we’re not spending time with Jesus enough. We’re not fostering that relationship. We’re not talking with him enough.

We’re not, you know, reading his already recorded words enough. Um, and it’s not like. Well, we’re not talking about Bible study. We’re not talking about, um, going through your list of prayers. We’re talking about relationship. We’re talking about conversation. We’re talking about depth of understanding of who God is not knowledge relationship.

And I know this is hard to kind of grasp. I get like you’re you’re. Kind of theoretic or through whatever the word is, uh, up in the clouds. Um, as you’re trying to grab onto these things, I understand that. Um, but I’m telling you, it’s the key, like here’s the piece that can unlock so much is if we just focus in, on our relationship with Jesus, like could we start to dig in here?

And I think that’s the thing that changes at all.

Andrew: I think that’s a good perspective and I understand like why you, why you pushed back to begin with, so I, as I say, As I was thinking, Jesus has clear and just says, do the things I told you to do. And that means you’re my follower. Uh, you’re my disciple. Um, you’re right.

The, I think the whole key is relationship that if I know him, if I follow him, if I do things to try to dedicate my life, To actually following him, then the byproduct of that is I live it out. Um, my actions flow from there, so, but I get it like I’ve tried to white knuckle stuff and that’s the, you know, that’s the easy prescription is, Oh, if I, if I want to be a good Christian, a good follower of Jesus, all I gotta do is.

Give the church, 10% of my money volunteer some time every once in a while, say hi to my neighbors. Cause, uh, God talks about neighbors a lot in the Bible. Um, and you know, just be a generally good person, help people move, help. People we’ll do that, whatever. Oh. And pray before you eat, those are the things I gotta do.

That gets me that. That, that gets me the golden ticket into heaven so that I, my, uh, after life retirement plan is taken care of, you know what I mean? But so you can confuse. The action with, uh, with the relationship and you’re right. Like the relationship has to be first, but from there flows of action.

Like, I, I try to, I try to clean the kitchen up most nights as know Anna puts Katherine down for bed and that’s not just because I love of cleaning anything like that, but I. You know, I enjoy a little bit of it. Cause I finally, I see something physical. That’s better when I, when I’m done with the day than it was when I got there.

But I also just do it because I know that stuff can drive Jana crazy a little bit. So I’m like out of relationship with her, this is a small way I conserve. This is the thing I can consistently do. That takes something off her mental list of I have to do this before he can relax. And it’s just something that I can help, you know, I’m part of the family.

Kind of part of what I say, yes, I’m going to, I’m going to do that to take that off your plate. That’s on me, you know, and in that same way, it’s like, I, if I’m going back to following Jesus, if I’m in relationship with him, Then I don’t have to just wave and say hi to my neighbors often to, to try to just, uh, be nice.

I love my neighbor as well, but like if they, if they need something, if I perceive they have, um, I can ask him about that. I can show up and try to meet that if they’re having a really stressful day or I know they’re about to in a week or something, I can say, well, okay, Can we bring you dinner that night?

You want to come over for dinner at our place? Can I, can I help? Can I cut your grass? Cause you said you’re going to be gone for a week. Seems like you’ve got a lot to do. Can I mow your grass for you? Like small stuff where it’s out of relationship? It’s not, it’s not, I’m going to go mow their grass once a year to be a good Christian.

It’s I know you a little bit. Uh, I know you a little better because we’ve been spending more time together. So I’m going to fulfill these. Things that I can, I’m going to do the small actions that I can to serve you. And, and hopefully to, to look a little bit like a re representation of Jesus in your life, you know, not me looking good, but like showing the attributes of, of Christ’s love and an individual care for us.

So that’s what I was trying to say is don’t white knuckle it, but your action flows out of

Josh: actually knowing and even, yeah, even kind of. Taking that idea even further it’s I start to love those around me in a different way, because. The God that I love loves them. And I’m going to love the things that he loves.

Not because I’m commanded or demanded to do it, but because it’s just natural, like, you know, you think of people that you love in your life and all of a sudden you start to love and care about the things that they love and care about. And you’re like, well, that’s weird. Like I’ve never cared about that before.

Um, And I think this is a good sign. Like as you start to look at those you interact with and around you, like, if you’re not loving people well around you, you’re not sacrificially loving them around you. You start to really take a step back and evaluate your relationship with Jesus. Like how, how much do I really love Jesus?

How much am I interacting with Jesus? Because if I was a lot of these things just naturally start to happen. Like they surprise you on a regular basis. You know, you, you think, you know, one thing of somebody and then all of a sudden you’re like, well, I’m in a weird place now that. I’m showing compassion and care.

And you know, I was annoyed, you know, just six months ago. Yeah. So it’s those little things where is as Jesus starts to, as you start to foster a relationship Jesus in it that deepens and grows and, and love is, is created. Right. And, um, strengthened. Yeah. Um, you start to find yourself loving the same things that he loves.

So like going back to that verse from before, like, um, I don’t know where it is. There’s so many things highlighted that’s right now that I’m yeah. Like, yeah, they may disciple. You’ll keep my, my teachings. Um, or if you love me, you’ll you’ll do what I command. Um, like think of that. Well, it’s not a command thing.

It’s not an issue of. Of will, or it’s a, it’s an issue of love. Like if you love me, you’ll do what I command. You’re focusing on the wrong part. You’re focusing on the command. I have to prove that I love Jesus. And that’s the point it’s no, no, no, no, no. When you love me, when you’re in deep relationship with me, you’re, you’re just gonna do what I command.

Like it’s just going to happen. You’re going to surprise yourself at times just because you’re like, I didn’t know that was in me. Right? Like it’s those kinds, that’s the key that we’re trying to get into and like, God is a personal God. He wants relationship with you. He wants to, to, to have  speak into you and he wants to give you hope and a future, like he wants to do these things.

Um, and it really comes down to that relationship. He’s like, that’s why Jesus went to the cross. It wasn’t just to forgive sins. It was to restore relationship. Now, forgiving sins was a part of that, but it was to restore relationship and we miss, we miss it so often. As, as Christians, we miss it as the church.

Like we get so focused on so many other things. And, but I think you start reading the new Testament through the lens, that lens of, of, you know, this is relationship. So what does relationship look like in this moment? Um, verses that you’ve read and you’ve understood your entire life start to shift and change and you’re life.

Oh, Oh, that’s what he meant. It’s not about. Doing everything he asked me to do. It’s not the command piece of that phrase. It’s the love piece. And in turn the commands come right along with it, right? Like how do I foster relationship? How do I, how do I focus in a relationship with Jesus? But it’s all these, all these different attributes or characteristics as we look at them, like, You know, sovereign and Holy and absolute truth in these, these thrown ideas that at that point, now you’re starting to stand in awe of like, Whoa, here’s one.

Holy absolutely perfect. I’m all powerful, almighty all knowing God. And for whatever reason, that makes no sense to me at all. He generally wants to have relationship with me. He generally wants to have conversation with me. Now that gives you a level of value that. Yeah. Probably a little mind boggling to some extent that much, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Dignity. Yeah. Like so many people are struggling with, with poor values of themselves. I think this is a big piece of it is if you have poor value view of God and poor view of your relationship with God, like this is where you end up.

Andrew: Yeah. That’s good, man. That’s, that’s totally, totally right on.

I think, I mean, I could be wrong, but to me that sounds real right. You know, um, I was thinking about this, the sovereignty, sovereign God being sovereign sovereignty. Peace. Um, and you know, if you look up definition of sovereignty or of a sovereign, it’s basically a ruler. Um, apparently there’s, uh, the Brits use, uh, the British use like that is some, one of their pieces of currency is called a sovereign, but that’s neither here nor there because who knows what pounds even are anyway.

Um, but I, I was just thinking about it. Like I, in my personal life, I am not quick to be excited to accept new authority into my life. Um, a lot of that comes from me, uh, just my makeup. Like I see myself as a Enneagram type eight, uh, with the strong nine wing. Um, I know you see yourself as a type eight anyway, which is basically like.

The challenger, the person who often kind of leads stuff because for a lot of reasons, but let’s be honest. I don’t like submitting to authority unless I think it’s the right thing to do, but it kind of we’ll look at it through that lens of like, I’m not quick to submit to authority. I’m not quick to follow rules that I don’t agree with.

And in that same way, One of the things that’s not my first instinct. I don’t know if it’s because I’m an eight or because I’m an American or what it is. But my first instinct isn’t necessarily to think of God as being just super powerful and 100% in authority in my life. And I think some of that is just because as soon as I recognize those things to be true, then I really got to fall in line.

I really got to. Start trying to live this way. I got to take the things that that were said through the Bible. Um, especially Jesus’s words. Cause they’re easy to understand and they’re pretty stinking. Awesome. Um, I got to take those things to heart and try to live it out. And like we were just talking, not, not trying to white knuckle it, I’m not trying to, um, do things just for the sake of doing, but trying to do it through relationship.

But. I don’t know, I was just thinking how I kind of naturally kick against them and, um, that I’m not quick to accept God’s authority in things in my life. You know, it’s not my, not my default setting.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s a, that’s a hard thing for, I think for all humanity, I don’t think it’s just us eights, but, um, from a perspective of I’m giving up control to somebody else.

And, and I think that’s why it’s important to have, you know, these four characteristics view of God, of like, God is righteous. Meaning like there’s no wrong, good side of him. So. You know, him being sovereign and in 100% authority, like it’s not a fearful thing. Right. Like, because he’s, he’s perfect. Like, so he’s not going to cause harm to my life by me, like living out in him, like he’s going to do all things for, for my good.

He tells us that. Um, so like it’s that piece of like an. Though I have submitted to faulty crappy, shitty authority in my life. I’m like, there’s those? It’s not that I’m like, don’t, don’t try to take those, those pieces and apply it to God because it’s not who God is. Right. Like, God is perfect. And how he functions.

He’s perfect. And how he interacts with you. So it’s going to be good. It’s going to be okay. It’s going to feel it’s going to be safe. You’re not going to be overwhelmed. I’m like, it’s not going to feel like someone’s taking advantage of you. That’s not, that’s hard. Oh, that’s hard is that you experience everything he has for you in this life.

Um, and. And so I guess there’s safety in that, um, is, is kind of the point of saying of like, it’s okay to take that chance of that risk. Um, it’s not like a relationship you’ve ever experienced before though. He has full sovereignty, full authority though. He is on the throne and you are 100% his subject, or as theirs as scripture, like to tell, tell us his slave.

Um, it’s not like, it’s not like you would, you would picture being a slave. You’re not going to be abused. I mean, you’re not going to be taken advantage of, um, God, 100% has your best interest at heart. I’m asking you to do everything in his power to bring those, uh, and remember his power is ultimate. So everything is power.

Is everything like he’s, he’s got it. Um, to, to bring you, uh, goodness to your life. Not goodness, in the sense of everything you want, but goodness, in the sense of what’s going to help you be, become who God has called you to be

Andrew: ultimate true. Real good. Like I liked that you brought that into the authority discussion because what I was doing, I was trying to isolate them a little bit and think about them as one thing, but you’re right.

It’s a full picture. It’s not that God is just in authority. Oh, he’s an absolute authority, but he’s also absolutely good. He’s also absolutely right. Yeah. Um, I was looking at a definition of righteous and it was like, ah, basically like morally right is, is a way to say it, but, but the reality is morals kind of shift and change over time, you know, like.

A long time ago, a lot of people would have, uh, tons of wives, you know, it’d be married to 10 different ones. Well, our society is not accept that anymore. We don’t say that’s that’s moral and right. And a good thing to do, um, at sometimes society did, but the reality is of God being righteous. God is always the perfect good.

God is always the perfect morality. Now. We’re not that. So our morals aren’t always. Perfect in how we try to reflect that. But, um, I’ve thought a lot about how, you know, God says the Bible says that we’re made in the image of God. And I think one of those things in our life that is like a very tangible image of God peace and humanity is that we all have conferences.

We all have. You can’t, you can’t find the conscience in the body. You can’t be like, Oh yeah, the conscious is six millimeters wide and sits inside of your chest cavity. No, it’s like, it’s not a physical, tangible thing, but I think it’s part of our soul. I think it’s part of our makeup is that God, but a conscience in each of us.

And maybe there’s sociopath’s maybe there’s not, I don’t know, man. People are crazy, but, um, that’s above my pay grade, but, um, I think I’d put conferences in. Uh, as a small piece that, that reflects, um, him as a thing to show us, this is evil. This is good. And maybe that points towards righteousness

Josh: in scripture, scripture tells us, right?

Like he’s written, his law is written on our hearts, right. That’s not like we know what’s good and we know what’s right. When no, it’s wrong to just choose one over the other,

Andrew: unfortunately. But I, but I all, I was trying to say that a long rambling thing, but I’m just trying to say, it’s good to see God as the ultimate authority, but also has the ultimate good life because I believe he is.

I believe he was for us. Um, he like you look at, they look at physical creation, like. It’s good, man. It’s ridiculously interesting and amazing and balanced and, and how God created a forest Steven, um, or a garden or a Lake or the ocean or whatever, but it’s, it’s incredible. Yeah. It’s not something that’s just like, I could duplicate that.

I could make that. No, it’s like that, that goodness that is, yeah. You can perceive goodness of God, through the perfect balance he created, um, in natural systems. So. Anyway, that’s me geeking out on nature and stuff for a minute.

Josh: No, that’s good. Uh, let me read this first, uh, as we kind of. Excuse me transition though.

We’ve kind of been all over the place into righteousness, and this is Ephesians four, uh, towards the end to the middle, to the end of verse 22, uh, you were taught with regards to your former ways to put off your old self. Um, which was corrupt by its deceitful desires, um, to be made new in the attitudes of your mind, um, and put on the new self, created to be a light God in true righteousness and holiness.

And I think it’s important to, um, To remind ourselves that we are new creations. When we make that decision of following Jesus, recognizing our sin, recognizing our need of savior, recognizing that Jesus went to the cross to die for those sins of conquering. Um, so we can experience for life. Um, It’s important to remind us that true righteousness and true holiness is now been given to us because of what Jesus did on the cross.

Like, I’ve heard it described this way at times. Like when God, the father looks at us, he sees God the son, right? Like that’s kind of the relationship we have. So put yourself not as savior or authority perspective, but put yourself as positional perspective. Like Jesus, you’re a son or a daughter of the creator of this universe now.

And like that’s, that’s, that’s a pretty. Remarkable place to be. Um, and it’s this kind of dynamic of kind of what we’ve been talking about is this old self is dying away. It’s going to eventually go away. And when Jesus returns and everything is fully restored, but in the process of that, we call the sanctification for.

Putting a big word in your head. This process of that, of us becoming more and more, Holy, it’s not a process of us. It’s a process of us leaning into Jesus. It’s a process of Jesus. And I think this is a big piece that we have to remind ourselves of. You want to be a new creation. It’s leaning into your relationship with Jesus and watching what he does and your heart and your mind and your soul, how you view life and watching this old deceitful desires and this corruption of, of who you used to be kind of start falling away.

Yeah, the more you, you lean into that relationship, the more we get to see this fruit in our lives. Right. You know, you go back to the, you know, we were talking earlier that, um, the actions of our lives, you look at what James said, like, you know, faith without action is dead, right? Deeds is debt. Um, It’s the same thing.

Like this is the same thing we’re talking about. Like when we shift our viewpoints and how we’re looking at scripture, like everything starts to light up like, Oh, this is what Jesus meant. At first I took it as it’s all up to me and I got to do everything and it’s not up to me. It’s not it’s if it was you’re screwed, like, like, I don’t want to tell you, you suck as a human being.

I do too. Like it’s, we’re not going to win that way. It’s just not going to work. So the same thing, going back to salvation, like for whatever reason, we accept that salvation is out of our control and only Jesus can provide it. But yet everything else is up to us. That’s not what Jesus is telling us.

Everything is up to him, but it’s relying in relationship up to him and fostering a relationship into him that starts to shift our hearts and our minds. And it starts to cut away the, the, the ugly, the bad, but also the good, so we can get to the gray of who Jesus wants us to be and what he wants us to accomplish in this life.

Andrew: Yeah, man, absolutely. It’s you just said a lot. So my head is kind of spinning a little bit, but, um, I don’t know, I, these are, these are traits of God that we believe to be true, right. Because the Bible says they’re true, but even more so, because we, you can experience them over time. Um, we’ve talked a lot about this, but kind of the litmus test is like, give it a shot and try to live it out and see if it’s true because that try to live out that God is not an authority in your life.

And then see where you wind up. If you put yourself in the, where do you see it in the driver’s seat, try to live out. If you say no, God’s not Holy I’m Holy on my own. Try to live that out and see how that works out. Try to try to live out like our society. This, um, there is no absolute truth. Truth is relative.

Your truth is as good as my truth, that type of stuff. It’s like, dude, live that out for a while and see where it goes because it doesn’t, it doesn’t point to being more right over time. It points to being

Josh: more than look at society. Look at American society just today. Like this is where you end up, right?

Like you go through this that there’s no truth. I get to define my own truth and we’re going to get a little bit political and I’m sorry, but. Unfortunately, that’s the world we live in today. Yeah. Um, but like, if we get to define our own truth and anything is allowed and acceptable, right. And you get to this place that will, at some point, as we’re seeing right now, lines are being drawn in the sand of no, no, no.

Not everything is right acceptable. Right, right. Like, yeah. If I come out and say, well, I have an issue with homosexuality, I’m going to get crucified. Because that’s not allowed. Well, now you’re making rules again. If I say that all lives matter and not just certain races lives matter, like you’re going to get crucified.

Cause that’s not the right thing to say. Now. I’m not saying I’m not getting into the political side of like, these people feel demeaned and they feel, I get that. I understand. I understand how you can feel that way. I’m not saying I understand how you feel. That’s not okay. We fight against those things, but now there’s no, like, there’s this weird dynamic of there isn’t free speech in our country anymore.

Um, like the masses have now dictated and said what you’re allowed to say and what not. You’re not allowed to say, look at Ellen degenerate. Ellen agenda is about to get ripped off the air. Um, Ellen DeGeneres was, was an advocate for. You get to define your own truth. And now she’s budding up against that idea.

Now someone else is defining your truth and she’s about to get ripped off the air for mistakes that maybe she wasn’t even making, but her show was by other leaders and now she’s going to lose it. All right. There’s this piece that, that we’re kind of get into is like, there is an absolute truth. And when you avoid, like, when you try to push away from it and you try to redefine it to whatever you want it to be, you’re going to, you’re going to find destruction again.

That’s just what happens because you’ve pushed away from the absolute truth. Um, I’m not saying like, I’m not saying it’s not. Easy. Yeah. To believe all of God’s absolute truth. I get, I get there’s some in there that are difficult to say. I don’t know why you built it this way. Okay. I should say it this way.

I understand why you put this away because I can understand the logic that you’ve kind of laid out before us. I just don’t know if I agree with the logic that you’ve laid out before us, but at the same time, it is absolute and I’m going to choose to believe it’s absolute. Um, so I’m going to keep going down those roads because I know.

You’re fully sovereign, meaning you’re fully in control. I know you’re also Holy you’re coming. There’s nothing else like you. Um, and I know, Oh, that your ways are right. And I know your ways are for what’s best for your humanity. We are creating and I’m trusting that. So I might not understand why you built it this way, but I do understand that you built this this way because it’s, what’s, what’s what is best for your creation and that’s what I’m choosing to believe.

And that’s what I’m choosing hold onto, right? Like it’s those pieces, but yeah, you start to get into that world of. We get to define your own truth. And while you’re watching it happen all around you on both sides of the aisle, I’m not picking on just liberals. Like you could dig into that stuff with conservatives as well.

Um, like it’s, it’s pure craziness right now. Yeah, it is.

Andrew: But this is how we get there. I like, I wish that sometimes I wish that we could just have like a matrix style download from God, you know, where it’s like Neo. And the first matrix is just like, uh, I want to learn everything about karate or do jujitsu or whatever it is.

And it’s  I need to like, wow, I know that now, you know, I know everything there is to know, and I wish sometimes we could be like, Got it. I want to know. I want to understand in depth, every truth, everything that you think about all the issues of today, uh, whether it be political or a social issue Q or whatever, the things you referenced.

It’s like, I want to know God’s perfect truth on all of that. I don’t pretend to have a corner on it. Um, and one of the beauty beautiful things is that we can. We can ask God, we can ask and go over and we don’t have to immediately post it online. We don’t have to immediately say. This is the stance that God takes.

And I take it because it’s true. No, we don’t have to do that. That’s that’s not our job we can. And usually it leads to more yeah. More trouble than it’s worth, but yeah, but there is absolute truth is what I’m trying to say. And we were in this time right now where we’re. In mass, our society is, and maybe our whole world, I don’t know, man.

A lot of people are

Josh: saying Americans, we don’t pay a lot of attention

Andrew: right now. Um, but I’m trying to say like a lot of us want to want to pretend to be in the ultimate authority. See, want to pretend to be in the ultimate. Right. I sat morality seat or I set truth.

Josh: See I’m right seat. Like I’m I’m I do this correctly compared to everybody else.

Andrew: And God lets you stay in that seat for awhile. No, he’ll let you go from, from being in a relationship with Jesus and following him in a real way to putting yourself in that seat. That’s your choice. You can do that. That’s what Satan did. Yes. That’s the basic thing that, that Lucifer did to fall from the being God’s go to angel to being, you know, I’m fully against him and it’s like, God is good.

And he brings us back from those things. And he brings us back from the times in our lives where we try to put ourselves on his throne or try to say, no, I think my version of the truth is a little better than his, um, yeah, he’s, he’s gentle. He’s not just like. Going to bash you over the head and say, well, you, you just died and said, you’re done, you know, try again, nothing like that.

But, but it is comforting to just embrace God is absolute truth. And that doesn’t mean I get a matrix download of every perfect stance from him. But he can reveal absolute truth to me over time, he can reveal each social issue, how I should understand that and how, how Jesus views that, how God views that, how we should act on it.

He can explain blame those things to us, but there’s no given. He’s not yet.  obligated to reveal that to you and me or anybody else asking. So I dunno, but it’s a, but yeah.

Josh: Is to still in that

Andrew: correction.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. And I don’t, and I don’t think it’s our position or, you know, you, you hinted on this briefly, but like, I don’t think it’s our job yeah.

To defend God’s positions. Right. Like I think it, I think that’s where we kind of, maybe it, because it feels on a personal attack against us. If you’re attacking a belief of, of God, I don’t know. Um, but. Like, it’s not your job to defend. God is more than capable of defending himself. He’s more than capable of doing what he needs to do to get people to where he needs to get them.

Like, it’s not an issue of, well, you’re saying, you know, you get back to, um, Religion in schools. Like I don’t need to defend it. I don’t need to defend prayer in schools. Um, do I want to see more parents schools? Absolutely. But do I also understand the world, the society that we live in and there’s a separation between church and state.

I also get that as well. Um, this is why we should open up. Now. We’re going to pull it now. I’m getting political. You should open up more religious schools, um, you know, make it more, uh, uh, Uh, financially feasible for people to go to these things. Like there’s, there’s ways to do those, that stuff. Um, but there there’s a separation in this country and it’s not my job necessarily to defend it.

Like God is more than capable. Apparently God allowed it to happen. He’s allowed to happen for 2000 plus or 2000 plus years. However, 200 plus years, however old the United States is, um, like he’s apparently okay with that law. I’m not saying that. Like he’s okay. In the sense of like it’s the right way, but he is okay with it in the sense that it is the way it is.

It’s the same thing with a polygamy. Like you look through the old Testament and there was plenty of Kings of, of God’s kingdom. I had multiple wives was God okay with that? Apparently he allowed it to happen now, was he okay with it from a sin standpoint? I would argue probably not, but he was allowing it to happen still.

Um, like going back to your last point, you were like, God is gentle in this and I don’t need to bring up my own pitch, fork and hammer and demand that people view things. How I view them. It’s okay. That people view things differently. Um, but I’m just going to hold to how God views them and let God defend himself.

It’s not my job to defend God. It’s my job to Dalene into relationship with Jesus and then do what Jesus tells me to do. Yeah. Um, and it’s probably has nothing to do with posting on Facebook.

Andrew: Probably not.

Josh: Let’s just definitely Twitter, but

Andrew: maybe not, maybe not Facebook and Instagram.

Josh: Definitely Twitter.

You’re not on the Twitters yet. Like you’re missing out on so much hate so late.

Andrew: Yeah. No, and man, um, I gotta wrap in just a sec, but I started this kind of my thinking on it from like, I don’t think about these things that often, but I’ve, I don’t know how we got there, but I’m ending on the, no, actually I do think about these things pretty often because there are so many social issues.

There’s so much in the news that. Constantly meant to pit you on one side or the other and make you feel like if you’re on the right side of this opinion, then you’re righteous. Or if you’re on the wrong side, then you’re evil. You know, like that’s, that’s constantly our society. So I guess. These, these traits of God are part of my rock.

Part of my like paradigm that I view the world through is no, there is absolute truth and we actually can know a lot of what it is and God, God can reveal it to his perfectly, or he can allow things to not be real revealed to us in this moment. But God is absolute truth. And from that, you can build a better view of the world, you know, but you can’t do that by saying, God is just absolute truth, because then you get just into judgment, you know, but you couple that with righteousness and your views, a little better, you couple that with authority and your views a little better with, with holiness apart from us and your view, it’s a little bigger.

Um, so I guess I do think about this stuff. More than I thought.

Josh: Yeah. And I think that’s probably the point of all of our conversations of over these last few episodes is like, there’s a holistic view of God that we want to make sure we align with because when we focus in on one part of the other and we miss out on so much more and it could lead us down to destructive paths, Um, with others or with ourselves.

And we want to avoid that as well. We don’t want to cause harm if harm does have to be caused. Um, let’s just kind of that piece to it, but yeah, no, I think, I think this is great. I think our conversation’s good. You know, next, next episode, we’ll cover just, you know, God has just in terms of justice, Scott is love and God is merciful.

Um, as we dive into those areas and in, as you said too, like, there’s this need in society today and you see this as in the church, just as much as anywhere or else that we need to draw lines in the sand and I need to be right and you need to be wrong. And if you’re wrong, you’re evil. Um, and that’s not necessarily the position that, that Jesus took.

Um, now was there a right and his are wrong 100%. There is. Um, but at the same time, Jesus didn’t need, didn’t see the point to have to point it out all the time. And he pointed out what was important in the moment and that’s all he pointed out. Um, so this whole. You’re right. I’m wrong. Like that mentality has to die at 100% S to die inside the church.

It’s not okay. Um, Jesus was very clear that how we love one another in our unity. Are they going to be the things that tell people that we follow him? Um, so those are keys. Those are focus, which means if there’s going to be unity, there’s going to be disagreement and disagreement has to be okay. Yeah. Um, you can view one situation and one way, and I can view one situation and another way, and it’s not foundational truth.

It’s not something we have to hold on to, you know, we have to dictate you cause scripture dictated that way. Yeah. So we live in. Yeah. Great. And we’re okay with disagreeing and that’s okay. That’s that’s unity. Um, and that’s, that’s hard for us to swallow the time sometimes, but you know, is your God in control?

Uh, I hope he’s in control. I hope you view him in that way, but he’s not just in control though. He is, he’s also full of mercy, full of love, and he’s also all powerful, almighty, all knowing, and he’s 100% personal. Um, he wants a personal relationship with you. Um, he wants you to foster that relationship and dig into that relationship and he wants you to spend time with him and through conversation.

He wants to spend time with him through the reading has already recorded words, and we want you to spend time with him and worship. He wants to spend time with him and fasting and solitude and all those other things that we already talked about. I don’t remember the episode numbers on them. Uh, they’re like.

Eight seven, eight, nine, something like that. We named them really funny cause we thought we were creative, but, um, yeah. Thank you so much for listening and we do appreciate it. Uh, if, uh, you, uh, are new here this first time here, please subscribe to us a review us and we have a rule only review us if we’re a TA or a four, a five for like a one or a two, just ignore us unsubscribe.

And don’t ever think about it. That’s okay. But if you really like us, please, please, please. Subscribe and review is always a huge help to us, but Hey, as always, Andrew, it’s good to see my friend.

Andrew: Good to see you, man. Thanks for this conversation.

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